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Robert Michaels - Hi John. Thanks so much for having me.

John - I think it's been about four years since we did our last interview. We actually did an interview for a pilot episode of a Smooth Jazz TV show and the usual studio that we used was occupied so we had to bring all this film equipment into my girlfriend's tiny apartment.

Robert - Yeah, I remember that and my band came with me.

John - It's an exciting time for you with the new album 'Allegro' and a brand new single and a great new video called 'Holding On.' It's being played on Much More Music right?

Robert - Yeah on Much More Music.

John - You've had videos before this one right?

Robert - I've had two previous videos. One that I did independently was called 'Cupid's Dance.' It did pretty well and it was very low budget. I think we spent four thousand dollars and it was shot on film.

John - Really?

Robert - Yeah (laughing) it was really kind of low budget it was even nominated for a Much Music video award.

John - We played 'Cupid's Dance.' We played three from that album. We also played 'Alyssa' and 'Forbidden Fruit.'

Robert - Oh Yeah. Getting three cuts played from one album is always a treat for any artist.

John - From 'Paradiso' was that your official first album?

Robert - That was the official first album.

John - You've never released any cassettes before that? Are there any collector's items out there of your early stuff?

Robert - That was the first one and I think we did one run of 'Paradiso' with eight songs on it and that might be a collector's item now. I think we printed something like a thousand pieces of that one.

John - You sold them at concerts?

Robert - We sold them off stage, yes. At the time I was performing at this wine bar restaurant and I think I sold them all there.

John - Now that you're with Warner Brothers can you sell the albums at the shows?

Robert - We do. It's a different arrangement obviously. We have to buy the albums through the record label but we have a really funky cool deal. My first two albums 'Paradiso' and 'Arizona' are still kind of under my own label independently so with those it works out a little differently for us.

John - Ottmar Liebert told me something interesting he said that with smaller labels sometimes they demands too much control. When he left 'Higher Octave' a lot of smaller New Age labels approached him and some of them wanted fifty percent of the publishing and one even asked for one hundred percent.

Robert - That's nuts. Actually with us we never shopped for a label we were really lucky.

John - They came to you?

Robert - Yeah, we were very fortunate. We had a few major labels that approached us and they wanted me to sign. It's not like I was trying to hold out for anything crazy it was just at the time it didn't make any sense because we were doing so well independently.

John - You have gone gold as an independent right?

Robert - Well actually that album my first one went platinum. Yeah 'Paradiso' went platinum.

John - No wonder they came! (laughing)

Robert - Yeah, we were doing well and the idea there was that if we were going to sign with a major label the goal would be to expand out globally and that's really hard to do independently. You kind of need the big boys behind you working it in other countries.

John - Let's get back to the video 'Holding On.' It's a great catchy vocal tune. Were you ever a singer before now?

Robert - Actually I was a vocalist, guitar player/vocalist for about twelve years. I used to make my living that way and I was use to that when I was working as a soloist. Half of my repertoire was instrumental music and the other half of it was vocals that were cover songs. I'd be playing in these wine bars and restaurants sing away some classics and play some classics instrumentally.

John - 'Holding On' is such a great summer song. It has that breezy kind of feel to it and I guess you recorded that video in Havana?

Robert - Oh yeah. We went to Cuba and shot the video and it was an amazing experience. The people were fantastic and the food and music too. We played with some of the native players there and had a great time and the scenery well you can see it in the video. You can see some of the rooms with all the marble and the detailing on the buildings. It's just gorgeous it's like you're somewhere else in the world.

John - What a great atmosphere to record a video. You also have two other vocals on the album 'In the Air Tonight' and 'Rider's On the Storm' and they both work with the Flamenco feel. We've all heard bad Flamenco versions of pop songs.

Robert - Oh yeah, I've heard some. (laughing)

John - But your stuff works well. You're also bringing something new to these songs. The biggest complaint about covers is that too many of them sound just like the originals but kind of a half backed version of it.

Robert - Oh yeah.

John - Well you obviously didn't do that.

Robert - I really can't stand it when an artist will cover a song and mimic the same production sound and the same vibes. I just find that it's not adding to or giving the song any compliments it's just trying to take what's already been done and just reuse it. I found with songs like 'Rider's On the Storm' and 'In the Air Tonight' they're great songs and they stand on their own just with the simple melody and music but how could you take the song and present it under a different light and take it somewhere else. It would be kind of a challenge for the artist and for the listener to be surprised and say, "Well I didn't expect that and I like what I'm hearing."

John - That's exactly how I felt. With 'In the Air Tonight' I loved it within five seconds and I thought your take was refreshing and that's what you don't usually get when you listen to a cover.

Robert - That's right.

John - Shelly Hamilton (vocalist on Allegro) I'm not familiar with her.

Robert - Shelly happens to be an old friend of mine. Back a few years ago and still today, from time to time I do these private corporate functions and I hire Shelly to come out and sing. It was actually by fluke that Shelly wound up on the album. She was brought in the studio primarily to just demo the song, it was strictly just to demo the track. I think our intention was to go out and possibly get an artist that was well known to sing on the album but everyone just loved what Shelly did. The label loved it and right off the bat I got chills after she laid down that vocal. Something magical happened there and I just thought that I don't want to change this and we kept it that way.

John - It's perfect and the production level on the album is great. Have you done any touring in the States?

Robert - We did a few shows. Right now I don't have my albums out there they haven't been released and we're working on that. Things should start happening within the next few months and then I'm on to doing some extensive touring in the States. With the shows that we did last year I would have to say that the crowds reaction has been phenomenal they just find this to be very fresh and very new.

John - Ottmar Liebert says that when he listens to some Flamenco guitarist's coming up that a lot of them all sound the same, that they do cookie cutter Flamenco, the garden variety.

Robert - Well I don't like to criticize any other player. I love the fact that they're out there and they're doing it. That's a great thing. It is true though a lot of them start to sound very much the same, you know very homogenized and very bland.

John - Until they find their voice I guess.

Robert - You know one of the biggest things is really truly finding out who you are and why you're doing this. I think some guitar players jump on the band wagon because they play six string, they think Flamenco music has kind of taken off and it seems to sell some records so that's what they should do.

John - Or I can get a gig at a coffee shop. I'm sure that's big in Toronto also the combination of coffee and Flamenco.

Robert - Yes it is. You kind of get every guitarist out there picking up a nylon string and….

John - And buying a white fluffy shirt?

Robert - (laughing)

John - I see you're not wearing one today.

Robert - (laughing) No, no I don't wear white fluffy shirts. At least I try not to.

John - Hey, I love the piece of wood guitar story. So before your parents bought you a guitar you practiced with a stick?

Robert - Yeah I did. At the time my parents didn't take me seriously I mean I told them I wanted to play guitar and they felt that would take away from my schooling so I was a little frustrated and rebellious. I went into the basement and got a plank of wood and started to put some strings on it and I drew some frets on it and I picked up some starter books on guitar, Mel Bay learning how to play one and two. I know everyone's got one right? So I started that way with many months of silent chords (laughing) and plucking until my parents finally saw that I was very serious about it and I think my mom finally gave in and gave me about a hundred dollars to go out and buy a guitar.

John - Did you start on it right away?

Robert - I just jumped on it and started playing. I mean I would borrow my friend's guitar from time to time and he kind of got ticked off at me because he wanted to play and I wouldn't give it back. Once I bought my own guitar I sat with it for hours and hours each day.

John - How do you see Flamenco doing these days?

Robert - In my perspective it is growing. I think it's kind of gotten away from the hard core traditional and becoming a little more mainstream, a little more modernized.

John - More people will hear it.

Robert - Yes and I think that's the bonus of having all these players that are out today. It's expanded the audience and you're also introducing new artists into the field of it. I think it works and benefits every other artist in this style of music.

John - What are the boys at 'The Wave' Hamilton's Smooth Jazz playing from the new one?

Robert - They're playing 'Holding On' and they are playing 'Classical Gas' that's as far as I know because that's what I've heard on that station.

John - Your version of 'Classical Gas' sounds really refreshing now there's a song that's a signature for so many guitarists. When Mason Williams redid it with Mannheim Steamroller it was weak. I don't think he brought anything new to it when he redid his own song. You have Lenny Solomon from the old Canadian band Myles and Lenny on there.

Robert - Yeah Lenny is playing on that one. I ran into him at a theatre and when I was searching for a violinist I had his number and I called him up and he said sure and we all had a great time. It was great he knew the song and grew up listening to it.

John - 'Classical Gas' is like one of those songs that everyone knows. It's like 'Take Five' by Dave Brubeck whether you know Jazz or not you just know that song and through osmosis everyone knows 'Classical Gas.' That's also a double edged sword because of that everyone has a permanently etched version in their heads.

Robert - Exactly and like I said before it would be pointless trying to redo the same production and orchestration of Mason Williams or whatever the artist it may be. I tried to lean to more of a Latin kind of salsa section in the middle you know and change around the orchestration. There are some strings in it and I did get a string quartet. Oddly enough the string quartet I did get were these amazing kids from a high school and believe it or not they were from a performing arts school in Toronto. I happen to catch them playing at this recital and they just blew me away and I thought at some point I'd love to get these kids in on my recording.

John - They must have been excited?

Robert - (laughing) Oh they had no idea what was going on. They'd never sat in a recording studio before and it was a thrill for them. It was a thrill for me to just see the excitement in their faces of being so naive about it. You know propping them up in front of microphones and getting us all working together and playing together in that environment. I'm sure they'll cherish that experience.

John - It's like their in the big leagues now.

Robert - Yeah and they did a great job. There's a middle section in there where you can really hear them play. They just did a fabulous job, top notch and very professional.

John - What's the first concert you ever went to?

Robert - (laughing) It would be weird if I say it. The only reason I went is because I got free tickets for it.

John - There's a disclaimer (laughing) what was it?

Robert - Leo Sayer. (laughing)

John - Hey I like Leo Sayer.(laughing)

Robert - Look he's laughing. (pointing to my producer Neil Thompson)

John - Was it 'Endless Flight' album with 'When I Need you' and 'How Much Love?'

Robert - Yeah 'When I Need You' that was the big hit. A friend of mine had an extra ticket and I said sure. I remember it was Maple Leaf Gardens.

John - Did he put on a big show?

Robert - Yeah it was a big show.

John - Did you enjoy yourself?

Robert - Yeah, we had great seats and I wasn't a big Leo Sayer fan but after an experience like that you can really appreciate the artist for his other music as well.

John - What was the best concert you ever saw?

Robert - Best concert? Gino Vanelli.

John - Really? The 'Brother to Brother' tour?

Robert - Yeah, It was the 'Brother to Brother' tour.

John - I just talked to Daryl Stuermer who's the nicest guy and he was with Genesis for so many years but he toured with Gino on that tour.

Robert - That's right he did. That album was huge for him. I would say that was my favorite album up to that point. I had owned his previous albums and they were great, they were fine. They were very technical and musical but that one had a bit more of a fusion, pop thing going on.

John - I remember the day I bought it. It's really a great record. I was getting into Jazz and I love the L.A. Jazz/pop feel on the record. What was the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you as a musician?

Robert - A woman ran up to me with flowers and tried to kiss me. Yeah, I found that kind of embarrassing. (laughing)

John - (laughing) On Stage? Did you have the guitar strapped on to you?

Robert - (laughing) Oh yeah, I had the guitar strapped on to me and nowhere to run! Yeah, I was a little embarrassed.

John - Hey like it or not, you Flamenco guys have this romantic image.

Robert - (laughing) I guess. The music is very passionate, yes. There is a very romantic thing that does come from it. With that woman it was one of those things that I didn't have any control over and after that I though we better get some people to stand by the stage. We can't have this happening again. (laughing)

John - What's the high point as you look back at your career?

Robert - I've had a few high points. I'd say the Montreal Jazz Festival a few years back playing on the main stage in front of fourteen thousand people and people going nuts and really getting it. We did two sets and with the first set they didn't know what to expect. I wasn't that well known in Montreal and they all went bonkers and all those people stuck around for the second set. It started to pour like you wouldn't believe and nobody moved, nobody left and I had thought the place would clear out. They started to form this big conga line in the crowd and it turned into just this wild party.

John - What do you do to get away from it all?

Robert - I fish. I love to fly-fish

John - How long have you been doing that?

Robert - Fishing in general where I've taken it quiet seriously probably about seven or eight years now but specifically fly-fishing the last three or four years. I love nature and I love the fact that I catch and release. I don't like to kill things. I love the sport about it and I love the tranquility of the water and listening to the stream and just being out there.

John - Isn't it interesting how sometimes the most obvious thing to de-stress is to just get the hell out of the house.

Robert - Oh yeah.

John - Do you have a favorite album of all time?

Robert - You know not really but there was this live album by Wes Montgomery, it was a double life album that was great. It had songs like 'Misty' on it and I just thought it was brilliant.

John - He's influenced so many people, just listen to George Benson. I hear it on Rik Emmett's new album too. There's so much Wes Montgomery in Smooth Jazz.

Robert - Oh Yeah very true. Wes Montgomery was very happy while he was playing. There's this very joyful flavor that he brings out of the music and that's what drew me to his music. There's no negativity there. Some of the songs can be very somber and melancholy but I just find with really good artists like that you can really sense the joy and the love for music coming out through your speakers and that's what motivates me.

John - Are you frustrated as a musician that there isn't more instrumental music on radio?

Robert - Yeah, I'm actually really surprised that we don't have more of those stations. It was always one of my questions years ago, I mean they're all over the place in the U.S. and it's not like we don't have the listeners for those stations.

John - And you know that from your album sales.

Robert - Oh yeah, they're hungry for the music and I think people should wake up and take notice. I think it's time, it's overdue but I'm really glad to hear that's it's arriving.

John - Robert thanks so much for coming to see us. It's great to see you again after so many years.

Robert - This has been fun. Thanks for all the support.

Interview from May 31, 2002. In Studio at QM-FM Vancouver.

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