Smooth Jazz Now

Randy Bachman - Artist Of The Month For July
July 2, 2004 - Randy Bachman told Smooth Jazz Now that he has no plans on ever retiring - he just wants to keep reinventing himself through his songs. The former member of Bachman Turner Overdrive and the Guess Who says while he was growing up in Winnipeg in the era that first brought Elvis to the masses he met a musical genius named Lenny Breau. Though he taught Bachman much about the guitar he was also very adamant about the power of a song. Most serious musicians know of Breau's legendary guitar style but unfortunately he remains virtually unknown. Breau was murdered in 1984 and Bachman wants to make sure no one ever forgets him. He is re-releasing many rare Breau recordings through his Guitarchives record label. Bachman also has a virtual duet with Breau on his new album 'JazzThing.' We spoke to Bachman by phone in June 2004.

John Beaudin - Hi Randy, it's nice to talk to you again. I was looking at pictures of your studio on the internet. It's pretty impressive.

Randy Bachman - I've had it for over fifteen years. I have an old Neve board from CBC remote and I had it all rebuilt. I have lots of toys from the seventies, eighties and nineties. I put in a new Pro-Tools HD for the recording. It's pretty much worldwide state of the art.

John - The first time I saw a Neve board in the eighties I was completely floored.

Randy - That's what I did all the B.T.O. Trooper albums on. So I was very familiar with it so when one came up for sale I went for it.

John - Let's start with Lenny Breau. What was your first impression of Lenny when you met him way back when in Winnipeg?

Randy - Well, I grew up playing violin so from the age of five to fourteen I just played violin. All you play on a violin is melody so hence I'm a songwriter and I write melody. I played classical violin which was very restricted and very strict. At the Royal Conservatory of Music you really had to play the notes on the page. You had to stand properly and you got examined once a year by a Board of Directors. It was absolutely frightening and terrible and I dreaded it.

Randy - Yeah, that's right. It's not a fun thing though. A fun thing was watching the Tommy Hunter Show when King Ganam was on and he'd play fiddle and people would go crazy. They would dance to the fiddle rather than sit there and just applause like classical music. (laughing)

Randy - Yeah, I used to watch that and Don Messer used to play and he had three or four guys playing fiddle and they'd have this dance. It was great and so I decided I wanted to play music that people danced to. Then of course I saw Elvis on TV and this wave of Rock'n Roll hit Winnipeg. After Elvis was on there was this span of two weeks where all the radio stations were changing over from Country and Rockabillie to Rock'n Roll and they were playing Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Elvis, Al Perkins and Little Richard. It was just mind blowing for a teenager in Winnipeg. We had never heard this before. To see it on TV and when Elvis was on well ones life just changed that minute. I just knew I wanted to play that music. It was just so wild. It was just off the top of your head and playing with your heart and with wild abandoned. I just wanted to play that. So to answer your question at the same time this was all happening a country band moved to Winnipeg and they became the band for a local radio station CKY. They played all these dances around Winnipeg, barn dances and sock-hops and everything and they were called the CKY Carivan because they traveled everywhere. It was like a Roy Rogers, Dale Evans thing with big fringe shirts and cowboy hats. They did Johnny Cash and Ray Price and the young guitar player in the band was Lenny Breau. The lead singer in the band was his father and the other singer was his mother. He was the Roy Rogers and she was the Dale Evans. I was fifteen at the time and Lenny was sixteen. They moved to Winnipeg and lived in a hotel for a couple of months and finally they got a house to rent. I just happened to be across the street from some girlfriend of mine so I got to meet him. I saw him play finger style guitar that totally blew my mind. To me it sounded like a string quartet. I could hear all the parts he was playing I just didn't know where to put my fingers. I didn't know the strings on the guitar since I was a violin guy. So my cousin taught me three chords on the guitar and I went to Lenny and showed him the three chords I knew and I told him how I could move my fingers and how I could hear his bass note and he was quite surprised on what I could pick up having never had a guitar lesson.

Randy - Yes, a very friendly guy but also very lonely. He had just moved to town and he had no teenage friends. All he did was play in his families band. He was always surrounded by adults and he's been playing in that family band since he was ten. He was in this weird world playing with adults.

John - I know he taught you a lot on guitar but you must have been and incredible lifeline for him?

Randy - Oh, yeah sure. It went both ways. I used to bring him Rock'n Roll singles. Once he taught me three or four Chet Atkins albums. I'm talking every song, every lick. Go listen to an old Chet Atkins album it's not country guitar. He played Broadway standards, he played Jazz, he played rock'n Roll and Rocka billy. As you know he played with Elvis and the Everly Brothers so Chet Atkins was really a hip guy. He was my first study book with Lenny Breau as my professor or my facilitator.

Randy - Yeah and it was frightening for me with all these extra notes. At first I just soared into Chuck Berry and Elvis and Lenny went more and more into Jazz. Lenny showed me a bunch of Jazz chords. You know the one thing he always told me was learn to write songs to always be a better guitar player. He said there'll always be a faster gun and he was practicing ten or twelve hours a day. I remember I used to tell him that I wanted to play like Hank Marvin of the Shadows or Duane Eddy or Chuck Berry and he's say, "That's great and learn to play that way but don't stop. Learn to write the songs that they're playing." He kept saying there will always be a younger faster gun that will come to town and they'll get all the press basically. (laughing)

Randy - (laughing) Yes, I did. That was the point where I started to concentrate on writing songs. I knew that depending on the market I wouldn't be classed as a superstar guitar player. I knew that I'd always be better than average and I knew I could go on stage with anybody and stand next to them and play up to their caliber but I could never surpass them but that was never my goal anyway.

Randy - Yeah, I wanted my own sound which I managed to get and my goal was also to write my own songs and it still is.

John - When I saw you a few weeks ago we talked about this but let's touch on it again. The people in the know, the musicians, the guitarists know how important Lenny Breau was but it's still very unfortunate that a lot of people still don't know who he was.

Randy - Yeah, well that's my main thought behind starting Guitarchives Records. I gathered all the live tapes I could from all his fans and friends who graciously donated them. I'd clean them up on the computer, find a good photo and release it. I want to make people aware of how great he was. You're right not that many people are aware of him but yeah guitar players are aware.

Randy - You know people hear it and say, "Man, is your guitar ever great on 'Summertime." Well, that's not me it's Lenny Breau. You can buy his stuff at my site www.Randybachman.com or Lennybreau.com. You will be amazed and blown away by this guy and that is the reaction I always get. People write me after they hear him once and they want everything he has ever put out.

John - I remember the story of you phoning RCA Records when you first got the idea of releasing Lenny's music and they said, "Lenny who?"

Randy - That's right and they also told me that they would never release his music again because it barely sold the first time. I guess it didn't sell enough in vinyl for them to recoup their investment. I asked them if I could lease the music from them and they said sure. I told everyone in Winnipeg I was starting a new label called 'Guitarchives' and that I would re-release all his old RCA Records. Unfortunately, RCA did not fulfill their deal with me and they gave his catalogue to somebody else. So when I started telling people that I had lost the catalogue they all told me that it was no problem. It turns out so many people in Winnipeg had tapes of Lenny performing in clubs or at their houses.

Randy - I have thousands that were given to me by family, friends and fans. They have called me the keeper of his flame so they give me the music and I create a royalty string for his four children. He was murdered and he left no will and they would have had nothing, so I wanted to create that for them. They all get a cheque a couple of times a year and it makes me feel good. I am sure it would make Lenny feel good. It is basically my thank you to him. I had no idea when I was fifteen and he was sixteen that he would become Lenny Breau and I had no idea I would become Randy Bachman. We were just two kids who hung out together, one was a genius and one was a vegetable. (laughing) The genius taught the vegetable. From what he taught me I have had an incredible life in music. He was my kindergarten guitar teacher. It was like studying with a guy who had a doctorate in Guitar. One in Jazz, one in Flamenco, one in composition and creativity. He was showering me with this knowledge and friendship and I never had a chance to thank him so this is my thank you.

John - Were a lot of the tapes of Lenny Breau that you received really bad quality?

John - Well, Jazz musicians have a long line of emotional problems whether brought on in the very nature that many were geniuses or from substance abuse problems which can of course stem from the same thing. Was Lenny an intense guy?

Randy - Oh yeah, he was very very intense. I would go over to his house every day around one o'clock. I'd go to school in the morning and remember my parents didn't know I was doing this. I'd go to my girlfriends for lunch and after lunch she would go back to school and I would go to Lenny's. When I got there he was usually just getting up since he would have played a gig the night before. So he's sixteen and I'm fifteen. From around one o'clock to four thirty I would be at his house watching him, learning and playing with him. He taught me how to play chords and solo so basically it was two guys having fun. (laughing) Then I would go home at four thirty like I'd been at school. My parents had no idea I was skipping school! I did this for a year and a half. I flunked grade ten and eleven and they were the two greatest years of my life. I was in the real school - the school of Lenny Breau. Sometimes I would leave him at four thirty go home have dinner and I'd come back at night on my bike to see my girlfriend and pop in to see him across the street and he would be doing the same thing at ten or eleven at night. He really practiced eight to twelve hours a day. Once he mastered Flamenco and Jazz and all that stuff he started to say that he wanted to be a one man band. He wanted to play like Chet Atkins, lead rhythm and chord and he put an extra string on his guitar so he could play more melody. So he played guitar like Bill Evans on piano. He put these chords together and walking bass lines and harmonic chimes and I would sit there thinking why does he want to do this? You know why don't you just get a bass player? He would say, "because I need to do it man, I need to do it." So he created this thing that everyone now knows as the Lenny Breau style of guitar. He created something new just like Chet Atkins or Les Paul.

Randy - He'd be in the top three or four in the world. He would be revered with Sevogia, Pat Metheny all the greats. I think the greats would be all bowing down to him. He'd be up there with Chet Atkins.

John - It's amazing to think how you own life would have turned out differently if you hadn't met him but imagine what both of you could have done together.

Randy - Yes, I would have definitely come back to him. I would have come full circle and back to him. I think we would definitely have done some things together. That's why I had us do 'Summertime' together on my new album 'JazzThing.' It took me a long time to find this version of Summertime that I could fit in without sitting on top of the track. I made it like we were in the studio together and I trade my vocals with his guitar and I scat with him and against him. That took me about a year and a half to do just that one song. I didn't want someone to hear it and say, "Oh, there's a voice-over-dub." So many guys have come up to me and said it sounds like you're in the room with him. That was really hard for me to do. Also, I had to find a song in a key that I could get by in because sometimes you play songs in the original Broadway keys and they're weird keys. So I had to listen to hundred of hours and I finally found three or four songs. Then I tried to sing like Chet Baker who Lenny Loved. Lenny introduced me to the two Chet's - Chet Atkins and Chet Baker. So I tried to sing it in a way that I wouldn't sound like a Rock'n Roll guy. A lot of people have said, "Congratulations you've done it." I think it really is a wonderful track. I think that's what the whole album is about, just taking you to a special place that's smooth, cool and an album that touches your emotions.

Randy - It's been absolutely fantastic. A lot of people have been really surprised because some people were expecting a B.T.O. kind of thing or a Jeff Beck jamming guitar album and they're just wowed that it isn't. The reaction has been like, "It totally took us by surprise but now we know why you did it." I will eventually do a guitar album but I just didn't want to do it first because it would be too obvious. I put the clarinet song 'Let's Call It A Night' first because I wanted people to ask, "Wow, why did you put a clarinet song first?" I want to surprise people. My wife was showing me a chat room last night on the internet and people in Italy, Germany, England and the United States are talking about it. It's not out in those places yet so I don't know how they're getting it but I love it. Some women were on there saying, "Oh, he's got a sexy voice." (laughing)

John - Last time I saw you we were talking about your trip to England with Neil Young and your wives going to see The Shadows.

Randy - Yeah, the Shadows are back together and touring throughout the U.K. It's totally sold out and tickets are in the thousands of dollars. I was lucky enough to hear about this eighteen months ago. I told a friend of mine to camp out and buy me six tickets and he did. Then I drove down to see Neil Young in Seattle and we were just sitting there having dinner backstage before his show and I said, "Neil, did you ever see Elvis?" He said, "No." I said, "What would you do if Elvis came back?" He said, "I'd Go." Then I told him the Shadows were back and touring and he of course said, "If only I could get tickets" Then I invited him and Peggy to a double date in the UK to see The Shadows. He told his manager to cancel that week so he could come. We'll be like the teenage guitar guys in Winnipeg seeing our guitar idols play. Besides Lenny and Chet Atkins it was Hank Marvin and Bruce Welch of the Shadows. I think if one of them slammed their hand in a car door Neil Young or I could go on stage and play every rhythm chord and every note that The Shadows know. When Neil Young does a solo today it just sounds like The Shadows. My solos on 'You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet' also. We play melody on our guitars not riffs or licks we play melodic things.

Randy - Yes, we emailed them and we're meeting them before the show for pictures and autographs and were invited to the after show party which believe me is going to be incredible.

Randy - Oh Yeah, Sting will be there, Brian May from Queen, Peter Green the original guitarist for Fleetwood Mac, Peter Frampton, David Gilmour from Pink Floyd, Paul McCartney and Elvis Costello. It's just unbelievable! Every guitar player in the world is going to the shrine it's like we are not worthy.

Randy - (laughing) Yeah, it's like Wayne's World but instead The Shadows World.

John - Were talking about one of my favorite topics and that the fact that your own fans may forget that you've been a fan too.

Randy - Sure we are going to be like little kids and I think Neil and I will probably be in tears because it means so much to us. It's like going to see The Eagles and they do your favorite song and you get such a rush of memories just because of that song so you can't but be overwhelmed. I think our wives will sit there and kind of laugh at us and we'll be in tears when they do 'Apache" or 'Man of Mystery' or 'FBI.' There is also the rumor that Cliff Richard will come on stage and do 'Summer Holiday' and 'Living Doll' it's just unbelievable. It's like Elvis coming back.

John - Just because you became a hero doesn't mean you've lost your hero's?

Randy - That's right and I liken that to the last three or four years touring with the Guess Who. People came too who were teenagers or in their forties, fifties and sixties and came backstage and said, "Thank you so much for coming, our life is now complete. You've been the soundtrack of our lives growing up in Canadian Rock'n Roll or American Rock' N Roll." They could also take their children to see the Guess Who because their kids have heard the music over and over. So yes, I'm that way with The Shadows. I just want to tell them "Thanks for getting back together." I never saw Frank Sinatra but I'm here seeing The Shadows and please sign my arm. (laughing)

Randy - Well, I don't think you always know because when you're doing it you're just so busy just doing it. When you're on the road it's just hit and run with a different place every night and you have to contend with the airplane schedules, losing things, being late, doing interviews, doing the gigs, trying to stay healthy, trying to eat too much junk food, staying off nicotine, staying off sugar, all those things that throw you out of balance. Plus you have to try to play good each night on relatively little sleep and then there's a guy who says, "The guy didn't hit the high notes in concert." Well, they have no idea.

John - I think the serious fans who want to know what makes you tick, these people realize but at the same time the really serious fans also forget that you're just a guy.

Randy - Yes and all you're trying to do is follow your dream and play guitar like Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, George Benson or Buck Owens whoever your idol is. You also have to hold on to your girlfriend or your wife since you're on the road a lot. So yes, in the long run you know you're effecting peoples lives but when you're in the middle of it, no. When someone sends you a press clipping you say, "Wow, I did something." It's like running a race and if you try stopping a guy when he's running a race and ask him how he feels, he'll say, "Are you kidding? I'm running a race here."

Randy - Well, I would really hope that before too long the two Winnipeg guys, me and Neil Young do something as a concert or something else on record together. Our paths keep crossing inevitably every three or four years and we're really each others oldest friends from those teenage years. We don't talk to each other everyday because you can't in Rock'n Roll. Whenever we're together we congratulate each other for what we've done, we hug each other, we shake hands, we share dinners and our wives are part of the ride and our children know each other. Sometimes the kids don't know how far we go back. Maybe we'll get together at the Juno's next year.

Randy - There are Jazz guys I'd love to work with. I'd love Tony Bennett to do one of my songs. Tony Bennett could sing 'Our Leaves Are Green Again' from the new album 'JazzThing' or 'In Blue.' If Willie Nelson or some other interpreter did one of my songs that would be very special. This is my dream as a songwriter.

John - I'd like to see you do a concert or a series of concerts with these types of singers.

John - I knew you had the Jazz thing in you as a kid with B.T.O. songs like 'Blue Collar' or 'Looking Out For Number One.'

Randy - Yes. They asked for more and now I'm just giving them more. The fans kept saying, "I'm not getting enough Jazz from you." Plus my Jazz vocabulary wasn't that deep and well now it is. So much time has gone by. I'm writing better songs, I'm listening to more Lenny Breau and I'm practicing one or two hours a night. It might take me two hours to learn one riff but when I got it I milk that riff dry. I go to that Lenny Breau well over and over for a drink. I only need very little to add to my Jazz vocabulary. Also two days ago the head of my label Maximum told me the sales of my album 'JazzThing' went up forty percent and he wants another one by April 2005. I can do that no problem. So as soon as this push is over in the Fall I'm starting another one. Actually, I'm thinking of doing two. When I'm playing live and doing the Jazz thing the fans are yelling out for the hits. They want to hear 'Taking Care Of Business' or 'You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet' but I do it in a Jazz style and it really fits well. It doesn't at all resemble the Hard Rock version. I do 'American Women' in a Jazz style and it sounds great. I do it in a Jazz Bossa Nova like 'The Girl From Ipanema' and they flip out. It's like I'm making fun of it all. It's like tongue and cheek version of my own songs.

Randy - Well, I have the Bravo show that I did that we're now mixing to be a live DVD. The Bravo show was only five songs but we did about eighteen songs. Every guest on the Bravo show did two or three songs. That's coming out in the Fall.

Randy - There's talk of it next year. We may do a final tour across Canada. We may record some stuff live in Winnipeg or Toronto. I'm open for it but I told them to get things going because I'm already booked into 2006 already. I'm just so busy.

John - Could a sixteen year old Randy Bachman have ever envisioned any of this?

Randy - They go on stage and turn into something else and they get off stage and they're back to the gentle mild mannered Clark Kent.

John - I remember you're Wife Denise McCann and her music in the seventies. I was happy to see her on the new album 'JazzThing.' How did you meet her?

Randy - I met her at the Commodore Ballroom in Vancouver. Denise is my second wife of twenty-two years. At the time I had been divorced for four years and I was a very lonely guy and I was a little depressed. I was a single dad, I was mister mom to five, six kids. I'd pretty much given up my career and someone asked me to come play 'Jingle bell Rock' at the Commodore in Vancouver. It was a charity show for the food bank and I thought it would make me feel good since it's Christmas time and it'll help get toys to some needy kids. So I did my set and after I was finished this other band went on and I heard this female singer and I thought who is that singing? I heard 'Respect' and I thought is Aretha Franklin up there? It was the Night Train Review and Denise was singing. I went back stage and looked out and I could only see the back of her wearing a pair of tight jeans and high boots. I didn't know a white woman could sing like that. It was dead on like Aretha. After it was over I met her and I was kind of smitten. She had her own hits in the seventies like 'Tattoo Man' and 'I Don't Want To Forget You.' She sings 'Let's Call It a Night' on the new album with me. She'll probably do more stuff on the next album and we'll probably do 'Cloudburst.'

John - Well, it was nice to see her picture on the album and even better to hear her again. I was a fan in the seventies. Is the B.T.O. thing dead for you and that band?

Randy - I'm open to anything but my brother seems to have the problem. They tried to induct us into the Hall of Fame last year and he didn't want to go.

Randy - So whatever his problem is I don't know. I just can't deal with negative things and living in the past. I'm just trying to go forward and do all positive fell good things and not just for the money. Do them because they feel good. I'm losing money doing Jazz believe me. I'm down to one tenth of my earnings. It's artistically challenging and it's so rewarding. I haven't felt this way since basically hanging out with Lenny Breau. It's like how new stuff stimulates your brain. Learning is such a wonderful thing. It's also learning what you want. When someone forces you into learning something it just roles off your back but when you want it you're just a sponge. I'm really writing incredible Jazz songs. I just saw Diana Krall in Regina talk about classy Jazz.

Randy - As they say it's not a destination, it's the journey. I'm on another journey and I don't know where it's going but it's really fun.

John - I remember the day I got 'Axe' and 'Survivor' your solo albums in high school.

Randy - I'm actually going to do 'Axe 2' and now I can really play. (laughing) 'Axe 1' was just fiddling around. The next one won't be just a Jazz album it will be a lot of different styles like Smooth Jazz, Celtic stuff, Jeff Beck kinds of things and maybe some George Benson Jazz.

John - I remember lighting a candle and listening to the long piece on 'Axe' called 'Noah.'

Randy - (laughing) Thanks. John Thanks for making me 'Artist of the Month' for July you don't know what that means to me. That makes the whole thing worth while that someone thinks enough about the new album to make me 'Artist of the month.'