John Beaudin - Hi Peter. Nice to talk to you again.

Peter White - Hey John, how are you?

John - I'm fine thanks Peter. I love the cover of the new album. It's retro and it's mysterious. Who came up with it?

Peter - Well, it's a very interesting story. We did a photo shoot for this album and I decided that I wanted to be smiling on every photo and in the end the record company didn't like any of it. They said it doesn't work because you're smiling. (Laughing)

John - (Laughing) They didn't like your smile?

Peter - Well, I've never had an album cover where I'm smiling so once again I was foiled. So they said how about an illustration? So the record company found this guy Mark Zingarelli through his website www.houseofzing.com and so I went into his site and saw all this great stuff and to go along with the "Confidential" title I thought maybe something mysterious would work. I saw this beautiful woman that he had drawn and I thought I want her on my album cover. (laughing) If I'm not going to be on there I want her to be on there. The record company asked me what else I saw on there so I thought how about a guy on the cover with his back to the camera, we really can't see his face but he's holding an envelope and that's where the confidential comes in. The envelope is confidential. In the end they put a lipstick kiss on the envelope which is much better. If you look at the picture though it doesn't really make sense because she's standing by the open door and I have no idea why. (laughing) In the album notes I wrote a story which incorporates all the album titles. So this story explains what I feel went on in that picture.

John - How did Mark Zingarelli feel about his art being on an album cover?

Peter - I don't know because I've had no communication with him. I did write him an email after the album cover was finished to thank him. It's amazing what the record company came up with because it was the same thing that I had rambled about on the phone so John remember be careful what you wish for. (laughing) Now I have it and I have to live with the fact that it doesn't make sense.

John - Well, you know everyone you talk to will ask you about it. The cover has its own unique flavor.

Peter - Also you can make up your own mind on what really happened there. I have my own impression on why she's there, what happened immediately before and after and people will have to buy the album to find out. (laughing) You can make up your own idea on what happened in room 102.

John - I just got off the phone with Mary Kirk who owns The Wave in Hamilton and she told me about a dance you two had on Warren Hill's last Cruise.

Peter - Oh yeah, I remember that. We were on the dance floor together.

John - We are in the process of planning the first Canadian Smooth Jazz Awards for early 2005. She and her husband Doug Kirk are big supporters in this country.

Peter - Isn't that a novel idea. They play it because they like it. It's nice to hear in this time and age. I applaud them for that. That's just great.

John - I was listening to the cuts on the album today and I heard a musician who's pretty happy to be here.

Peter - That would probably describe me to a tee. Absolutely.

John - You've come a long way in this business.

Peter - Yeah, I've come a long way and it would be a real sin if I wasn't happy in my skin at this point of my career.

John - It has to be what thirty years for you?

Peter - Yeah, almost thirty years now. If I was still searching for my direction or my soul I think I'd be in a lot of trouble. I turn 50 this year and I celebrate 30 years in the music business and I'm still happy making music. I love to play.

John - I think bottom line that when people are interested in what you put out it's a good thing.

Peter - I find it amazing John when people have interest in what I do. I spend a lot of time and effort into making the CD's. A lot of quality control. I don't want to put out something that's just going to be average because I've got a rabid fan club. (laughing) They expect only the best from me so that's what keeps me going. I love playing in front of people is what inspires me to keep going. I think if I was just a studio guy I think I might find it difficult to drum up the enthusiasm every time to make an album but it's so much fun going on the road and hearing the response. So I know its working.

John - The new single "Talkin' Bout Love" is # 4 in the U.S. and # 9 here in Canada. It has a nice breezy feel.

Peter - You know I wondered into my producer Paul Brown's house one day and we really went to admire the new addition that he'd made to his house but he said to me, "Come into the studio I've got something to play you." He played me this track which eventually became "Talkin Bout Love." So I picked up his guitar and in fact I'm not even playing my guitar on half of the album I'm playing his guitar. Because I was at his house and I of course didn't come with my guitar. (laughing) I wasn't expected to work but then we started at it.

John - Jerry Hey ads some nice horns on the tune.

Peter - Yeah, we decided that we wanted horns on the song so yes here comes the legendary Jerry Hey who's played horns on everybody from Michael Jackson to Steely Dan and Earth, Wind and Fire. Jerry is a legend in the music business. He's played and arranged horns for every major artist over the last 30 years and even arranged horns on my Christmas album.

John - What goes through your mind when your release an album?

Peter - Trepidation because I'm putting myself on the line. A lot of people have high expectations. A lot of people liked the last album and their expecting something as good or better this time. I just get nervous about it. This is my ninth album now so I'm not running around throwing demo's at people saying I'm excited about this. You can't remain excited all of your life. You have to come down at some point. You know John when I get excited is when I see the response from this album. I'll get excited when I see the sales for the first week that should be out actually tomorrow. So that may be exciting or it may be disappointing. (laughing) So I wait until that moment. You know I didn't make the album for me. Sure when I was writing and recording it yes but really by the time it's done, I'm done with it. It's not up to me whether I like it or not it's up to the people out there.

John - I hear you know Ray White of KKSF in San Francisco?

Peter - Oh Yeah, I've known Ray for a long time.

John - Well you're "Artist of the Month" for April and Ray is our "Behind the Mic" broadcaster for April.

Peter - Great. I've known Ray for a long time from his days at CD 101 in New York. I remember talking to him backstage at a Basia show in 1994.

John - He was a great interview, nice man with lots of great stories to tell.

Peter - He's a very good man.

John - Geoff Kite who handles Swing Out Sister emailed me today and let me know their new album is almost ready for release but He told me that you two caught up with each other in England not too long ago.

Peter - Yes, he gave me an Ive Mendes CD.

John - Yeah, he wanted me to ask you if you liked it.

Peter - Yeah, I loved it.

John - Last time we talked you told about your Love for Swing out Sister.

Peter - My wife and I have been huge Swing out Sister fans forever, in fact one of their albums called "Shapes and Patterns" which came out in 1996 became like an anthem in our house it just played all the time. I've always wanted to meet them and I never have but like you said I know Geoff now. I met him in London but their very elusive. I would love to work with them one day.

John - I interviewed Corinne (Drewery) for the last album "Somewhere Deep In the Night" and I found her very charming and warm.

Peter - Well, tell her that Peter White wants to work with her.

John - I will. I promise. I hear you're going to be on the next Warren Hill Cruise in 2005.

Peter - Yes, I will be.

John - That's got to be an ultimate gig?

Peter - Sure what could be better? You have a cruise, you can bring your family and you only have to play a few times.

John - You and your wife must have had a nice vacation?

Peter - Yes and my mother was also there and my wife's mother and father and our little girl Charlotte were there. We really had a great time and there were enough artists on the boat that we had a rotating show system so we didn't have to play every night but we probably did end up playing every night because there were a lot of guest appearances. Warren asked me to come on and play with him and so did Euge (Groove) because we recorded a song together on his last album. The one before the most recent.

John - That was "Play Date."

Peter - Yes and remember on the cruise we're all old friends. I remember playing with Warren in late 1994.

John - On the new album I liked "Are You Mine" with Mindi Abair. It must have been fun touring with Mindi?

Peter - Yes we did a Christmas tour and she was fantastic. I didn't realize how much of a great performer she was.

John - I haven't talked to her yet. Is she a nice lady?

Peter - Beautiful lady. Always nice Mindi is always up and enthusiastic. On the tour we were playing every night and traveling everyday and it was a lot of hard work but she was always really up. I love playing with her.

John - Something tells me you weren't asking her "What are the Backstreet Boys really like?"

Peter - I know what they're like (laughing) I don't have to meet them.

John - How did you get hooked up with Mindi?

Peter - I first met her producer Matthew Hager.

John - Who of course produced your new album.

Peter - Yes. I was writing a song with Matthew and she lived literally across the street from him. So when I was working with Matthew Mindi would just drop in every now and again to say hi and to just listen to what we were doing. I'd met her before but talked to her just a few minutes here and there I'd never really talked to her that much. So she ended up on the CD and played great.

John - I'm a big driving songs guy. I loved "Coast Road Drive" and "Jump on It" from your new album.

Peter - Well "Coast Road Drive" is another Peter White driving song and there have been a lot of those. I can't get away from those I just love driving songs. With "Coast Road Drive" I imagine myself driving with the top down on a coast road with the sun setting and my hair blowing in the wind. "Jump on It" is pretty up as well. I actually wrote that song quite a while back for the "Perfect moment" CD but it never got finished so I'm glad that one saw the light of day.

John - My favorite parts of any album Smooth Jazz or otherwise are always driving songs.

Peter - Well yes, you gotta have driving songs even if they don't get played on the radio. I don't make an album to get played on the radio I make an album because I think it's going to excite people.

John - The title song with Brian Culbertson to me is a friendly, carefree tune.

Peter - Yes, it's a funny whimsical song maybe about two people winking at each other from across the road. That's why I call the album "Confidential" because that song is confidential. It's about two people who have something going on but nobody really knows it.

John - Also Chris Botti is on "Stormfront."

Peter - At the time that he did that he had just flown in from New York because he was doing the TV show at the time with Caroline Rhea. He was also recording his own album in L.A. so he was flying back and forth and staying in hotels wherever he went. I don't know about now but back then he said he didn't have a fixed place or abode. He was on tour all the time and I thought what a life. Good for him. When he did the song with me I think he came straight from the airport, played great and that was it. I called it "Stormfront" because it sounds kind of ominous.

Part two posted April 9, 2004

John - Michael Paulo goes nuts on "Endless Journey."

Peter - Yeah, Michael's a great player. Actually I met him out here on an airport bus. (laughing) This is how you get to meet people John. It's something I call the proximity effect. If I was living in the middle of Iowa I don't think I'd be meeting musicians like I do. It's all happening at the airport because we as musicians all have to go there. So anyway here we were on the airport bus and I told him I really wanted to play with him so he called me and he's been playing in my band ever since.

John - I like the way "Endless Journey" starts also. I like the dreaminess in there.

Peter - Yes, I like the way it turned out. The song actually goes on for eight minutes and the last three minutes is pretty much all Michael. (laughing) We couldn't stop him so we kept the whole thing. Someone said the song had to be four or five minutes and I said no way lets keep it all.

John - Also on the album is Christopher Cross on Brenda Russell's "She's in Love."

Peter - Paul Brown my producer used to work with Christopher Cross and it was Paul's idea to do the song. I've played with Brenda many times on stage and we used to do that song with just her voice and guitar. On her version there is no acoustic guitar because I think that song screams out for the acoustic guitar. Paul said lets do it and let's get Christopher Cross to sing and I said if you can get Christopher to do it I'll thank you forever. (laughing) Sure enough Paul called Christopher and he came by and you know his voice sounds exactly the same as you heard it twenty years ago. I mean everyone remembers the first time they heard Christopher Cross in 1980 with "Ride Like the Wind."

John - Sure I remember he toured with Fleetwood Mac and he's still played by a lot of different formats including Smooth Jazz some stations play "Ride Like the Wind" but most go with "Sailing."

Peter - Yeah. I think that it's great that Chris is branching out by playing with other artists especially in Smooth Jazz so it's good for him too so you never know what could happen.

John - With both Matthew and Paul both being guitarists does that make it easier when it comes to production?

Peter - It's funny you should ask because yes Matthew for instance is a guitar player and he and I would just sit around playing guitar and write songs together and I haven't done that in a while. I don't really hang out with people who play guitar too much. I hang out with people who play keyboards or drums. I used to hang out with Marc Antoine but he moved to Madrid so I don't see him too much anymore. Matthew and I wrote a few songs together on guitar we wrote "How Does It Feel" which is pretty much all guitars on the song.

John - I have a question about "How Does It Feel" that's partly a take off of another song, right? It's on the tip of my tongue but I can't think of it. It's driving me nuts. (Laughing)

Peter - (laughing) Well, it's actually a new song but it's based on another song, actually two songs. First it's based on one of Mindi's (Abair) songs. I think it's her new single.

John - "Save the last Dance?"

Peter - Yes "Save the Last Dance" (Peter starts humming the chorus) and there's another song by the Beatles (Baby, Your a Rich Man) a long time ago (starts singing) How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people. After we wrote the song we noticed that in the first four notes but you know you can't be sued for four notes. (laughing) It has to be seven notes I think. For the record I didn't consciously copy it plus it falls on a different place on the bar.

John - I do like that one.

Peter - Well its Matthew, it's quirky and Matthew knows nothing about Smooth Jazz and yet he produced Mindi Abair's wonderful album, so it's good. On "How Does It Feel" there's my acoustic guitar and Matthew's electric guitar and that's pretty much a first for me because I've never really used electric guitar on my albums with the exception of really minor background parts. So this song is like a battle between my acoustic and Matthew's electric guitar. I find that quite interesting.

John - Sure. People must still ask you about Al Stewart all the time?

Peter - Oh Yeah. Al is still on the road. He tours all the time and anyone reading this should check out his website www.alstewart.com. Al recently did a tour of Europe. He goes to Europe once a year and he doesn't have a band anymore but sometimes he goes out there with another guitarist and or a bass player.

John - You and Al did that also right? Just the two of you in the end.

Peter - Yeah the last tour I did with Al was actually this time ten years ago. Alot happened that year 1994 and yes it was just the two of us. We were promoting an album which we recorded a year before called "Rhymes in Rooms" which was just the two of us.

John - I remember I had it.

Peter - I played some keyboards and some accordion as well. I love that album because it really is live and really the way the show was back then.

John - After that you played with Basia right?

Peter - Yeah, I went to play with Basia after that and I have news on Basia as well.

John - I need a scoop.

Peter - Well, my brother Danny is her producer and co writer and of course he formed this band Matt Bianco about twenty years ago.

John - I remember them and I remember Basia was in there too.

Peter - Yeah but she was never the central part of the group she was a background singer. The band was huge in Europe but she and my brother left at the same time to pursue their careers. Meanwhile the other guys left in the band kept the name and kept touring as Matt Bianco for many years. The name Bianco of course comes from the Italian version of white which of course is our family name so that's how that band came about. So Matt Bianco was a fictional character based on my brother. I used to call him Danny Bianco and there's a song on my very first album called Danny Bianco dedicated to my brother.

John - I had no idea.

Peter - (laughing) It' okay. No one gets this stuff so I have to explain it John. Recently Danny got together with the original group of Matt Bianco and made an album and Basia wanted to be involved in it and I'm also involved in it. I play guitar and accordion and the album should be coming out in the summer. So there will be a new Matt Bianco featuring Danny and Peter White and Basia.

John - You are the scoop man! You're out of control. (laughing)

Peter - (laughing) I'm full of interesting snippets John.

John - What were you like in elementary school?

Peter - I was shy

John - You played guitar then right?

Peter - Yeah I played guitar then. It was actually the guitar that got me out of feeling shy. It got me noticed and I felt without the guitar I was pretty anonymous. I didn't have much personality but as soon as I played guitar people took notice. So I carried the guitar around with me pretty much the whole time. (laughing)

John - Well, there must be pictures of you smiling back then?

Peter - (laughing) No, no I wasn't smiling too much back then. I didn't start until 1993.

John - Your being kooky now?

Peter - It's true I have video tapes of me playing with Al Stewart in the eighties and I'm not smiling at all. (laughing) Al Stewart's music was much more serious I think.

John - I know we touched on this in our last interview a few years ago but did you join him on "The Year of the Cat" tour?

Peter - I actually joined him on the tour before that called "Modern Times." That was 1975 and the same year we started recording "The Year of the Cat" album. I play mostly acoustic guitar on that album. Even though Al hired me as a keyboard player he later found out I could play guitar. If you have the original gatefold LP you'll see a small picture of me on the inside.

John - I have a framed autographed copy of "Year of the Cat" I'll have to take it out of the frame and check it out. It's been so many years I forgot about what's in the gatefold.

Peter - I'm there at the age of twenty. The pictures are all so small because they needed so much room for all of Al's lyrics

John - If you weren't in music what do you think you'd be doing?

Peter - Well, I wanted to be a hairdresser for a while. You know I actually cut my own hair. I never let anyone cut my hair so I do it myself. I was also interested in science. I could have been a scientist I think. I also liked physics a lot.

John - What musician out there just blows your mind?

Peter - Well George Benson always. He's a freak of nature. Those are Paul Brown's words, he's worked with him. To be able to play like that is just stunning and also Pat Metheny.

John - I was talking to Linda Nash who just started her own Smooth Jazz label called Tidal Wave. She used to work with George Benson at the CTI label in the early seventies and she says the same thing about George. He's from another planet.

Part Three posted April 18, 2004

Peter - Completely.You know I practice but I know I'll never be George Benson or Pat Metheny. (laughing) You know considering what I do I don't think practice will really help me. I try to connect emotionally with the music.

John - Yeah, I hear you.

Peter - You know if I try to play like George Benson I'll sound like I'm trying to be way too clever and I don't think anyone would get it. I think people would say he sounds like George Benson but not as good so what's the point you know? (Laughing)

John - Marc Antoine spoke about playing for the soul also in his interview.

Peter - Well, you know I wrote in my website and on the liner notes of the new album "Confidential." I basically wrote that I've resisted many times on my CD's to be clever on this album because I've rarely found that it works for musicians. I've tried to play from the heart because ultimately that's where music comes from. It's not enough to know where to put your fingers. That's words of wisdom. You know John, I feel like I have some wisdom now after playing professionally for thirty years. People ask me all the time where do you put your fingers or how do you do that. I think it's irrelevant.

John - If you met Peter White at twenty what would you tell him?

Peter - You're going to be ok son. (laughing)

John - You weren't too sure back then?

Peter - (laughing) That's a great question. John you have great questions. I wish other interviewers would give me such great material. You know if I met the twenty year old Peter White I'd ask him what he's so worried about. You're going to be ok.

John - But you didn't have that emotional foundation back then, not many have at twenty.

Peter - Yeah, when you're twenty you are worried about everything. Same thing with a teenager and that's really what being a teenager is all about. You are worried if you're wearing the right clothes or your shoes are the right brand or if your hair is exactly right. That's what teenagers worry about and it takes you years to get over. I worried well into my twenties and partly through my thirties and one day I just stopped. I asked myself what I was so worried about and I couldn't come up with an answer. It was all irrational and I said to myself well why don't I just be happy and content. I realized it was a choice and I've been pretty much that way ever since.

John - I remember reading in a self help book years ago the story of this woman who was always in a hurry, always worrying, ate standing up and one day she just ran into her house locked the door behind her, ran into her living room and suddenly turned around and said "Boo." to whatever was chasing her and of course no one was there. Yeah, it's always irrational.

Peter - Hurry or never worry. People come up to me and say, "Aren't you worried that this might happen?" and I say, "Yeah, but it might not happen and there's certainly nothing I can do to change it so let's not worry." Lets' rejoice that we're still alive.

Part four posted April 28, 2004

John - How many albums have made you cry because they have touched you deeply? Joni Mitchell's 'Blue' did that for me.

Peter - There have been many albums that have made me cry and yes, Joni Mitchell's 'Blue' was one of them. Another is Pat Metheny's 'Secret Story,' George Benson's 'Breezin.' The song 'Begin the Beguine' just kills me. I'm helping a friend of mine record some old songs and that's one I chose. The song was written in 1935, seventy years ago and it just gets you right there. Also Aretha Franklin singing "I Say a Little Prayer." That just kills me. When I first heard it I actually understood Soul music. I remember that day because my brother set fire to my electric guitar accidentally. I was so sad when I listened to that song but I found comfort in her singing.

John - How about Dionne Warwick doing Burt Bacharach?

Peter - Loved it. It's funny that 'I Say A Little Prayer' was a big hit for Dionne Warwick in America but in England it was Aretha Franklin who had the big hit. I still think the Aretha Franklin version is better.

John - I remember being pleasantly surprised at James Taylor playing guitar on that first track on 'Blue' - 'All I Want.'

Peter - (Peter starts singing Mitchell's 'Carey') I just loved her.

John - These days I'm just talking to everyone about Joni Mitchell.

Peter - Nothing wrong with that!

John - Do you watch TV?

Peter - Not so much now which is a good thing. My wife and I adopted a little girl who's three and a half now so she watches her kids shows and in the evening I am working anyway. I'm answering my emails, I'm writing songs, I just don't watch network TV anymore and it's a good thing. Sometimes I'll turn it on late at night

John - What scares Peter White?

Peter - The destruction of our environment. Some of which may come back and some maybe never. Some of this is irreversible and that scares me. We've gone so far along this path that we could all vote for Ralph Nader tomorrow. We've already forgotten a lot of what was there unless you look at pictures from one hundred or two hundred years ago. We all forgot the whole continent was once covered in forest.

John - Let's talk about the other extreme, what gives you peace?

Peter - Music. Being able to play guitar or piano absolutely gives me peace. I have this little Nintendo game that I like, it's a vintage called Tetras. I recently found it and take it everywhere. When you're concentrating on that your mind can't go anywhere else.

John - I love simple pleasures like that.

Peter - Yeah, simple pleasures, taking a walk and looking at the countryside. One night I was going to the movies with my wife and it was such a beautiful evening and I said, "Let's just take a walk and look at the countryside." It was just beautiful. You know simple things. The fact that we can get joy from simple things is a gift, isn't it?

John - So much so that when I go through periods in my life without those simple pleasures then I know I'm out of tune.

Peter - With me it's my bike. I haven't ridden my bike in a long time. When I ride my bike it's impossible to feel sad. Also when I look at my three year old daughter it gives me peace because she has peace.

John - If the big hand of God pointed down on you right now and asked you who in the world that you haven't met yet would you want to have coffee with who would you pick?

Peter - David Sanborn. I've never met David and I've always wanted to. I'd also like to meet Keith Emerson.

John - I haven't heard his name in a while. I used to listen to a little E.L.P. in high school.

Peter - I know. Keith Emerson was a huge influence on me. When I was totally into guitar as a teenage he got me interested again in keyboards. I don't think anyone else could have but he did through his Emerson Lake and Palmer stuff and he worked with The Nice before that. He influenced me today because I still play keyboards on all my albums even though people don't realize that. On both 'Coast River Drive' and 'Jump on It' I'm playing keyboards. I've never really done that on any of my albums at least not a soloist. I'd love to meet Keith; I think he lives in L.A. somewhere.

John - Did you like Yes and Genesis?

Peter - Oh Yes, I was a Genesis freak. I used to see them playing in my little home town in England. A little town called Letchworth with Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins playing drums. The original Genesis from way back in the early seventies. They just played in this little room and I thought it was just amazing so I bought the album. At that time it was an album called 'Nursery Cryme.' I became a Genesis fan all the way up until 'A Trick of the Tail.' I kind of got into other things after that they kind of got more pop and they just kind of lost me. 'Trick of the Tail' I remember was the first album where Phil sang lead vocals. It's strange I could have met Phil Collins back then he was a drummer playing in a band in a small youth club. (laughing) I could have come up to him and said, "Hey Phil, do you know your going to be the biggest star in the world?" (laughing) He would have laughed at me.

Part five posted June 15, 2004

John - I know you'll get a kick out of this but when I talked to their guitarist Daryl Stuermer he told me he auditioned for that Genesis gig he was the only one in the U.S. audition process that actually knew the tunes. (laughing)

Peter - (laughing) Wow, well John there's a great piece of advice there. A little bit of preparation goes a long way.

John - How did you get that first meeting with Al Stewart?

Peter - With Al Stewart his manager called me one day. I was pretty much living in London without a penny to my name, I had just turned twenty. He was looking for a keyboard player so I told him that I played keyboards.

John - How familiar with his work were you at that time?

Peter - I'd seen Al play twice. Once at a big festival in between two really heavy bands. It was in between Joe Cocker and T-Rex. He was up there by himself and he just played solo guitar. I just loved his voice. I also saw him play at a local town hall when I was nineteen. So I was familiar with Al but I wasn't familiar with his individual songs. What they did is they sent me the LP 'Modern Times' which had just come out. They sent me the actual CD via a London taxi. So here's this taxi driver knocking on my door giving me an LP. They asked me to learn three songs. I learned them, showed up at the audition and got the job and that was it. I was prepared. If I hadn't learned the songs especially after they gave me the LP it would have shown that my heart wasn't in it.

John - Or you were extra cocky and you didn't need to.

Peter - Exactly and there's no room for that in the music industry. You have to have ultimate humility because you'll have it knocked into you sooner or later in the music business.

John - About five years ago I interviewed Bill Henderson, the leader of the band Chilliwack.

Peter - Yeah, I remember them.

John - He does a lot of songwriting seminars with younger musicians and I asked him if he would have taken a seminar on songwriting when he was younger and he said, "Oh God, no, I would have been too cocky, of course I know better now."

Peter - Absolutely because in the end that's all people are going to remember. There are very few artists that are going to be remembered more than their songs. People usually remember the songs and then they'll say, "Who did that song?" No matter how good you think you are as an artist people will forget your name eventually. Well, I understand what Bill Henderson said and I see that all the time John but the smart songwriters know that it's a learning process and they seek to learn.

John - Peter, it's been fun reconnecting with you.

Peter - It's always a pleasure John.