Ottmar Liebert
John Beaudin - Hi Ottmar. I've been playing your music for years and it's great to finally talk with you.

Ottmar Liebert - Thanks, here I am!

John - How fresh is your mind? Have you been doing interviews all day?

Ottmar - You're lucky. I haven't been doing interviews the whole day. I had a rehearsal earlier on but that's it. My brain is very regenerated so I can come up with new lies. (Laughing)

John - (laughing) You know you've invented a new sub-genre name. A lot of people call flamenco Nouveau Flamenco now.

Ottmar - I know Jesse Cook has called this music Nouveau Flamenco at some point. I'm very pleased that after twelve years or so Nouveau Flamenco is a somewhat known genre or category. You know what's interesting to me is that it seems fairly static. I can think of twenty bands and people that are doing "Nouveau Flamenco" but there seems to be very little movement there. These artists don't seem to want to break out. I've heard Jesse do some interesting things though. Unfortunately with Flamenco a lot of people make it sort of a formula and that's something that I've always tried to stay away from by doing remixes or working with an orchestra, doing samples or just simply changing the band around. I'm pleased that Nouveau Flamenco has become such a term but I wish people would use it in the flexibility in which it was meant.

John - I notice from album to album you seem to want to do something different.

Ottmar - Well John, that's my desire and the reason I keep changing the band around is that I like the way it makes me look at the material. It makes me look at it in a fresh way. I have to play this stuff differently because if I play just with a trio obviously I play rhythm and melody parts but if I have another guitar player or horns and this whole stuff going on then I play differently and the bass player plays differently. So that becomes very different. We used to play as a trio at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco for example and it holds about four hundred people. We used to play one night and the sound was great there with a three piece. Then we opened for Santana before fifteen thousand people but you know above about twenty five hundred people it really doesn't sound that great. You lose a little bit in the sound. Contrary to public belief, the Flamenco guitar is a very quiet instrument and there's only so much you can do and I despise pick-ups so I have to make do with microphones. When you see me with a certain band you can bet you won't see me in that capacity for a while.

John - Keeps it fresh.

Ottmar - Yeah and I've always told the band if there's something they want to change and they get an idea of how to change their part or do something new, then do it. In concert the people don't really expect note for note. I personally know ticket prices are not cheap these days anywhere between twenty and one hundred bucks. So when I go to a show myself I want to see the musicians who don't just play what's on the record because I can stay home and hear that probably with better sound from my stereo, open a nice bottle of wine, light some candles and enjoy it probably more. So when I go to a concert I want to hear the band do something new with it. Between the time of the record coming out and them coming to play some thing has to have evolved, something has to have changed. I think having that in mind keeps it more interesting for the audience as well.

John - You talk like a consumer and of course you are but this is a conversation I could have had with someone I was waiting in line with to buy concert tickets.

Ottmar - Sure John, I'm a consumer too and as long as you keep that in mind when you perform you know what I am giving them. What's in it for them? What makes this evening special? I can't just do the same show that I did last time. I remember when we had a quartet and we did a very intimate setting on stage. We brought rugs, we brought three candle holders that held something like four hundred candles, we had lava lamps on stage and it was very different. I think its all fun. I sit there while we are rehearsing and I try to step outside in the theatre trying to imagine how I would want to hear this and what I would want to see.

John - Well, you won't get bored thinking that way.

Ottmar - Absolutely. I do think with instrumental music you have to do something to make it different from last time. You don't have a lot of movement on stage. You have to do something else to make it interesting. The music is a good start but you have to create a certain atmosphere.

John - I've been listening to this type of music since high school but my first concert shows where in the eighties and I saw a lot of instrumental outfits do some pretty bad shows because of what you said, bad presentation.

Ottmar - I'm not going to tell the name but we saw one of the most famous Flamenco guitarist's of all time in Columbia and I thought it was fabulous and I turned to my friend and he says, "You know he played it better ten years ago." I said, "What?" He says, "Well he's done this show for at least ten to fifteen years and its note for note." I thought to myself as we all age there's a certain speed you can have as a youngster but as you get older that athletic guitar playing you do you can't keep that up anymore. Miles Davis played completely differently when he was older than when he was younger.

John - Isn't that the truth.

Ottmar - And to make that something that shows you that it's alive. When you're younger you're exploring and when you get older you have an authority behind every note that you can't have as a younger man. So to me the exciting thing would be what this song will turn into and what will this solo turn into twenty years from now and I would hope that it wouldn't be note for note.

John - Because the old way is not who you are anymore.

Ottmar - Yeah, exactly and you can only mess up. With this Flamenco king what I was hearing not having seen this guy beforewas phenomenal but my friend who had seen him four or five times over a longer period said, "Yeah but he missed this and that note." I said, "That doesn't matter." and he said "Well, it does matter if that's what he did every time." We've done a lot of versions of songs from let's say 'Barcelona Nights.' Some of them get these extensions like 'Snake Charmer' that we've been playing since 1993. When we were doing a sound check one day and I came up with a melody that was an intro the song became a minute longer then we jammed a bit more and we thought that here is a great percussion break! Last year we were playing and someone was just messing around and someone thought at the end of the song we could kind of go into Reggae. So over the years a song will get a little addition to it.

John - The song migrates(laughing).

Ottmar - (laughing)Oh yeah, it's the song you know you love with a new twist to it every time.

John - You must get the fluffy white shirt flamenco stereo-type. (Laughing)

Ottmar - (long laugh)You know, I haven't worn a fluffy white shirt on stage ever. I know what you mean though. (Laughing) It's the fluffy white shirt, the black pants and the black vest. No, I try to stay away from that. (Laughing) You know people have asked me about the remix album for example and what the reaction to that was and I did get a couple of letters from people who sent back their CD saying, "This is dreadful how come you did this?" On the other hand I got a ton of email from people who heard it in a club.

John - Who otherwise wouldn't have heard it.

Ottmar - Yeah. I think that kind of thing helps break the stereo-type. It's dance club Nouveau Flamenco.You hope that with everyone you lose, you win one or two in addition to that. With me you never know my next album could be anything.

John - I sometimes get in a contemplative mood when I listen to your stuff especially 'Borrasca' from 1991 and 'Innamorare' from 1999. If you want to break a stereo-type that'll do it.

Ottmar - Well, thanks a lot. I think that's a very nice compliment. I try to make it flow and maybe that's why you feel that way. Remember that period in the seventies with fusion bands, it was always so obvious that they were doing an odd meter and you had to kind of follow the whole thing because it was so complex. I try to play my music in a way that it sounds like a song and it's not, "Hey, look how clever we are." It has to flow as music and in the studio I have a different approach than I have live because live anything goes. If I feel like soloing for a long time and searching than I can do that but to me in the studio I want the essence of what that song is about. I will usually take the less is more approach in the studio because I find that it lasts longer and I can listen to it twenty or thirty times without getting sick of it.

John - Do you ever listen to your old live tapes? Ever get pleasantly surprised?

Ottmar - Yes I have. I've listened to old tapes and thought, "Wow, did we speed this up? We're playing so fast." It's nice when you go back and hear something and to know it couldn't have been done any better. It's the right melody for this and that feels really good.

John - I think as a writer that's hard. I've written stuff and felt really bad about sending it to an editor knowing I didn't have time to fix it up because I'm on a deadline but every now and then I'll realize that it was a good thing that I didn't have more time and it actually didn't need rewriting. It's good to have that space away from it to hear or see it with new eyes and ears. We have all heard albums that are over produced. It didn't need that extra blood sweat and tears.

Ottmar - I know exactly what you mean. It doesn't always happen that you can look back and be satisfied but that's what you strive for.

John - I want to talk about one of my favorite albums 'Innamorare' from 1999. It all started with you being in Tuscany right?

Ottmar - Yes I was in Tuscany for seven weeks and it was sort of a strange concept. I rented a Vila for seven weeks and brought some friends and family over and a couple of guys in the band and was just going to go down there and live. Instead of just being tourists we're just going to live there. We're going to rent a car and drive to the supermarket and really live in Italy. I came up with the title when I was looking in a Webster's Dictionary looking up a word starting with 'I' and I got to the word Innamorata which I think means 'lover' then at the bottom of those two words it said root of the word in Italian, Innamorare. To be enchanted, to fall in love. I thought this was a great title for the album. I really enjoy hearing people trying to say it and John you said it right. (laughing).

John - Because I'm French, I can really roll those R's. Hey, you got to like an album title that makes you work. Damn you!

Ottmar - (laughing) You said it the best of anyone.

John - Thanks. I remember when I first played the album 'Nouveau Flamenco' on the air. The reaction was good but interestingly a lot of listeners thought you were a sped up version of a New Age guitarist. It didn't help that your label at the time 'Higher Octave' was basically a New Age label but of course they've branched out a lot since then.

Ottmar - Yes, I've heard that. You know John I kind of went into it by accident because of Higher Octave. I notice how so much artists are so upset with the genre title, like George Winston who hates the tag. I actually educated myself in New Age. A lot of people think it's all John Tesh or Yanni and you know there's a lot of cool music under the New Age Banner so there's a freedom under the category that you don't have anywhere else. With Jazz for instance, if it's not like this or that it's not Jazz but New Age can be anything and I like that. I do think the whole New Age movement influenced at least the U.S. a lot more than most people think. The New Age movement was highly influential in introducing alternative healing. I go to an Acupuncturist regularly. My dad was once told by doctors that he had to use a cane and it was just old age. There was nothing they could do and he was in his late seventies. At that time I hadn't done acupuncture but my brother had experienced it and he said to my dad, "I'm taking you to this guy." They came back together and my dad threw the cane away and never used it again. I think the New Age movement was responsible for bringing quite a few things like that to the people.

John - I went to an acupuncturist for about a year. It's great if you can get past the fact that these are needles. With instrumental music a lot of folks love to pick on Kenny G, John Tesh or Yanni.

Ottmar - You know you gotta take the good with the bad and for some reason with New Age people are not willing to do that. I can show you a hundred really, really bad Jazz recordings and we all know that there's enough bad Rock'n Roll. A couple of years ago I was doing an interview and I knew that this journalist was just trying to get me to say that New Age sucks and I didn't have a reason to say that. There's good and bad in every category. There's some pretty bad world music out there for crying out loud!

John - How do you feel about radio's attitude towards instrumental music?

Ottmar - You know there are very little commercial outlets for my stuff.

John - But you still get some airplay.

Ottmar - Well yes but it's mostly word of mouth and the web site and we get fifteen thousand hits a week its www.lunanegra.com. I can actually pinpoint exactly what happened. KKSF in San Francisco was sold for 11 Million Dollars and if you spend that kind of money on something you're not going to let some DJ play whatever he wants so consultants came in and tested every song and that's happening everywhere. It's so sad when people just go in these rooms and vote for a song based on a few second hook and mostly they vote for something they recognize not what they actually like. As a result the same songs win all the time and the testing in North America says the guitar isn't as popular anymore it's all Keyboards and Sax. Now think about it there's a lot of Smooth Jazz Sax players out there and that's why Smooth Jazz has replaced New Age. I remember there was a station in Santa Fe that used to play stuff that would force me to pull over on the side of the road and phone the DJ and ask what that was.

John - I love when that happens.

Ottmar - I love it too but it doesn't happen enough anymore. One of these days a Program Director is going to let a Music Director take a chance to just let him go. Don't even look at those trade magazines, listen to as much music as you can and I know that station would be a success. There are way to many consultants in Smooth Jazz and instrumental. I don't think I would have sold as many records or had as much of a fan base if in the eighties and the nineties the stations hadn't been a little more adventurous. Now they don't play that much of my music anymore. I think a lot of people are driven to putting CD players in their cars.

John - I appreciate your honesty.

Ottmar - I was having lunch with this big Smooth Jazz Program Director and this person said you wouldn't believe how many musicians call me and say, "What do I do to get played on your radio station, just tell me." and this Program Director said "That's disgusting don't you think?" and I'm thinking not really because that's how you operate. You say, "Well, I know what I think my audience likes and what I like and I'm going to put it together." Instead you must trust the research, you trust some people who were made to listen to this and you go by what they voted for. I can understand these musicians who are getting frustrated who just want to pay the bills and call this station and say, "What do I need to do to get played."

John - So you have this sexy image, do you have any sweet dangerous little stalkers you want to talk to me about?

Ottmar - (laughing)Well we do get the odd person jumping up on stage and dancing around. My tour manager enjoys that a great deal. He kind of has to run out and handle the situation. We don't really mind but sometimes for security reasons you can't have ten people who are not really part of the show bumping into you on stage. The odd thing about our audience is that it's really mixed up and I don't mean it the way it sounds. There are the kids who go with the parents to heavy metal fans to people in their seventies. It's just a very strange and wonderful combination.

John - Have you ever had any female fans that like you a little too much that they try to track you down?

Ottmar - I heard once there were two people who had waited at the address that we used for our record company thinking I would be stupid enough to live there. (Laughing)

John - Are you still a big Miles Davis fan?

Ottmar - Oh yeah, I think I have every CD that Miles Davis ever put out. I have over fifty and I have mostly the Columbia ones.

John - What's the deal with Flamenco and coffee? You're in Santa Fe do you have that out there as well?

Ottmar - Oh yeah. Well I started that way playing in small coffee bars.

John - So you started it. (laughing)

Ottmar - (laughing) No, no I don't get credit for that but it's a great way to start.

John - Why didn't you stay with 'Higher Octave?'

Ottmar - Well my contract was up and I wanted to have complete control of my stuff and 'Epic' was giving me that. Some of the smaller labels like 'Higher Octave' feel like they have to have their hand in it. It's true that sometimes with smaller labels you actually have less freedom.

John - Were you approached by other New Age labels?

Ottmar - Oh Yeah. I was approached by a lot of them and there were different reasons why I didn't go with them. 'Epic' let me keep one hundred percent of the publishing and writing. There are a lot of small New Age labels that want fifty percent. There was one that actually asked for one hundred percent.

John - Did you ever think of doing anything else for a living?

Ottmar - Interestingly up until I was eighteen I wanted to be an industrial designer. I'm fascinated by design and I draw a lot and I like taking pictures. When I was nineteen I traveled in Asia for a year with my guitar.That's when i decided it had to be music.

John - When did you start playing?

Ottmar - I was eleven.

John - Since you like design do you have input on the cover art?

Ottmar - Oh Yeah.

John - Ottmar, thanks this has been refreshing.

Ottmar - Likewise. Thanks a lot.