Norman Brown Lets His Voice Be heard
September 22, 2004 - "In this business you have to keep reinventing yourself," says Norman Brown. The guitarist who just released his follow up to the Grammy winning "Just Chillin," is excited about his new direction - singing. "In the beginning of my career I was discouraged from singing. I was told it's a no no for a Jazz musician to try to sing," says Brown, "It was just a nice way of saying you can't sing." After winning the Grammy he sat down with the president of Warner Brothers where he shared his wish to be a vocalist. The result is "West Coast Coolin," an album that incorporates his trademark catchy inspirational guitar style with a few Urban flavored vocals sung by Brown. The first single "I Might" is already charting on the U.S. Urban/AC charts. The guitarist also has "Up 'N' At 'Em" on the Smooth Jazz Charts. Norman Brown will be our 'Artist of the Month" for November. Read part one of our interview.

John Beaudin - Hi Norman, it's so nice to talk with you.

Norman Brown - Hi John. It's always great to connect with Canada.

John - Well, this country is not too famous for bringing Smooth Jazz north of your border but that is slowly changing.

Norman - That's a good thing man. I got a chance to play in your old radio town Vancouver once but it was a private affair for the record label when I was with Motown.

John - I remember when I got your first album on MoJazz.

Norman - Yeah, they folded right after my 'Better Days Ahead' CD.

John - I remember playing "After the Love Has Gone" and "Serenade" from that album. I hear you went to school with Allen Kepler from Broadcast Architecture and Clear Channel.

Norman - (laughing) That's right, we went to high school together.

John - He was nothing but trouble, right? (laughing)

Norman - (laughing) No way, he was a quiet cat man!

John - Come on buddy I don't want any P.R. here. (laughing)

Norman - (laughing) No, he was a good kind guy and we were in a Jazz band together.

John - Allan is a good man though, I know some musicians who think he's the anti-Christ. You know a few musicians don't like consultants! When I shared that with him he was cool about it explaining that being a consultant in any format let alone Smooth Jazz is like combing your hair in the wind, it's going to get a little rocky. Nor everyone is going to like you. Of course he didn't need me to tell him a few musicians are not on the Broadcast Architecture bandwagon.

Norman - (laughing) Well, he's open minded and that's a good thing.

John - He did tell me one thing about you back then and that they all knew you'd make it, they recognized your talent.

Norman - That is nice and he's right all throughout school, I had great support from my classmates.

John - Well, it didn't hurt that you wowed the hell out of them back then.

Norman - (laughing) Well, a lot of people were good at a lot of different things at that age man. There were athletes, artists, and musicians and I was thinking how is this going to last.

John - Ok, I'll say this again even though I've shared it many times on the website but Bruce Hornsby told me something interesting the last time we chatted and that's when people get better in the major sports they are usually guaranteed lots of cash as they get to a certain level but in music it doesn't guarantee anything. The charts are owned by singers who can't sing like Britney Spears or Jennifer Lopez!

Norman - Wow, he's absolutely right about a great musician not having any guarantees. That's a great point, I couldn't agree with him more. I've never thought of it that way. It makes you wonder, it's a sobering thought.

John - After listing to the vocals on your new album I thought why the hell hasn't this guy sung more?

Norman - Oh great man, thanks. In the beginning of my career I was discouraged from singing. I was told it's a no no for a Jazz musician to try to sing. I was so discouraged and it was just a nice way of saying "You can't sing."

John - Which is crazy. They told the same thing to George Benson. Do you know what I'm saying?

Norman - I do know what you're saying. You know in this business you have to keep reinventing yourself and it's kind of what Bruce Hornsby is doing. You have to get better and better. To keep doing the same thing over and over is like treading water. You're not going anywhere. It's a sad thing and it happens a lot. I say why not get better at your craft because someone young and new is coming in right behind you and the companies want to go with them. I kept telling myself to do what I do best and to sing more as well. I sang in my concerts and my audience was asking for it.

John - As a music lover I wouldn't care if you were the best guitar player that ever lived if you also had a great voice I'd want to hear that. It's another way to enjoy the same artist.

Norman - Well, people around me were telling me that for years but I was with record labels. When I won the Grammy I sat down with the president of Warner Brothers and he asked me what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to sing and work with producers who produce vocalists and here I am.

John - Yeah, congratulations on the Grammy for "Just Chillin."

Norman - Thanks John.

John - So was the pressure on after winning the Grammy? (laughing)

Norman - (laughing) Well, not really it's just an indication that I'm going down the right road. It just told me to keep going down that road. I did some vocals on "Just Chillin." I included more vocalists to the album but there were guest vocalists singing all the songs but it's the first album I've ever made with that number of vocals songs on it. It worked and people liked it and I thought this is something that I have to go with. The response to the concerts was great so it was all good. I modeled the new album like that and I'm really glad I did.

John - Norman, did it take a while for you to actually receive that Grammy? We ran a few stories months after the ceremonies about how long it took some performers to receive them.

Norman - Oh yeah, it took a long time. The Grammy ceremony was in February and I got my Grammy maybe six months later.

John - You had to sign a contract, right?

Norman - Yeah, you sign a contract saying you won't do this or that with it and it also acknowledges that they own the Grammy you only own possession of it. You have to sign that before they send it to you. Once they get that they print up your trophy. It was really a process.

John - Thanks for sharing that because I think most folks have no idea it's got any red tape. So you can't go around and act the fool with your Grammy?

Norman - You know if I even tried to sell that thing or broke any of the other rules they have the right to take it back.

John - The tune "I Might" is doing well on the charts.

Norman - Yeah, that's a bad song man. Yeah, the first week on Urban/AC radio it was the number one added song. It's doing great and we have a lot of rotation.

John - It kicks off the album and my first thought on that tune was it was a hit.

Norman - Well, the vocal songs on the record are for that reason - to be singles. There are no filler album track songs every vocal on the new album will be a single to gain a new audience and fulfill what it is I'm trying to do now.

John - Well, I'll mention some of the other vocal tracks like 'Angel' and "I'm Coming Over."

Norman - You know when I had the meeting with the president of Warner Brothers he had the song "Angel" that he played and he said, "You mean you want to sing songs like this?" I said, "Yeah, exactly like that!" So, I went and cut the tune and it was mine.

Part Two Posted November 1, 2004

John - So obviously the label will release another vocal?

Norman - Sure, the plan was to release "I Might" to introduce my vocals and "Angel" will be next, then "I'm Comin' Over."

John - Norman this has to be a good place to be, you've added to the mix and so far the reaction has been really good?

Norman - It's kind of scary John to be honest with you. (laughing) I've been in the business for a while now you know and I've had a good measure of success and I've seen how that goes, you do the music that you feel good about and you get the response from the people who have to work it, the people at the label. That's really your first audience. Then I have to talk to people like you who have heard it. So the fact that you like it means something to me.

John - You went to L.A. in the mid eighties, right?

Norman - Yeah, I graduated from high school in 1981 and I moved to L.A. in 1983, went to school, graduated and started teaching here and just tried to get myself into the music.

John - "Up and at 'Em" is the first instrumental hit from "West Coast Coolin," it's doing well.

Norman - Yeah man, that's the one you know I came off an album called "Just Chillin" and I told myself "Man you have to get up off this chair," (laughing) that's how it came about. That's exactly what that song personified.

John - What's the writing process like for you? Do you ponder on things for a while or are there a lot of quickies?

Norman - I do have some quick ones for example "Take Me There" from the "After the Storm" record took about 30 minutes to write, it was incredible.

John - I remember that one I played it in Vancouver.

Norman - (laughing) Man, I've never had that experience since but that song just came out as if I was improvising the whole thing. It just happened and it was just there, every part.

John - That was like 1994 right, come on lets have some quickies? (laughing)

Norman - (laughing) Yeah, that was 94 and it was Jazz album of the year.

John - Yeah, I remember we were deep on that album, we played "Take Me There," "Any Love" and "For the Love of You."

Norman - That was my gold record, the other one won the Grammy but that was the big seller.

John - On the new album I like the harmonizing/vocaleeze on "Missin' You."

Norman - Well, you know that's one of my favorites on the record, different people call that kind of singing different things, harmonizing, scatting and that's what I do with the solos as you know. On a great tune it always seems appropriate to do it along with the hook.

John - Speaking of that style, I know that you're a big (George) Benson fan, have you heard his new album?

Norman - Just a few cuts I haven't heard the whole album.

John - The first one I heard if my memory serves me was "The Other Side of Abbey Road."

Norman - Oh yeah, he changed my life man. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing. (laughing)

John - You've met George, right?

Norman - Yeah, I met him a couple of times starting a couple of summers ago. He's just a gentleman of a guy.

John - Another big influence for you was your dad who got you into Wes Montgomery.

Norman - You know I heard Wes Montgomery throughout my childhood because Dad always played him but it didn't catch my ear until I started playing guitar. Before I wanted to be Wes Montgomery I wanted to be Jimi Hendrix. (laughing) One day I came in and my dad was playing Wes Montgomery and my dad said, "Oh sure, you're into guitar now, come in and hear a real guitarist." That's when it all changed for me.

John - Have you ever wondered what Jimi Hendrix would be doing now if he were still alive?

Norman - Oh, I wonder that myself, that's a great question. I have this picture of Jimi today in the studio. Also Miles (Davis) wanted to hook up with Jimi at some point so who knows what could have happened with both of them together.

John - Can you imagine the possibilities? They could have invented a new genre. We started with our talk on inventing yourself and Davis certainly did that.

Norman - That's a perfect example of that concept.

John - If you had to change something about the Smooth Jazz format what would it be?

Norman - Man, we need some visual exposure and we need some exclusivity. The radio stations play too much of the old vocal hits and they don't leave much room for the new vocals.

John - Yeah, that's one of my biggest complaints, the old vocals.

Norman - Yeah, especially the vocals so there's a void there and then we get saturated with a lot of music they want to use for office radio, to listen to while you work so lets not make it too hip, funk and groovy so it can't be too distracting. I think those kinds of things hurt our format. It keeps the music from being as genuine as it could be and it kind of keeps it in limited terms.

John - Talk to me about what the fans are saying to you about radio? Are they saying the same things?

Norman - Well, you know the fans are kind of groovin' along with things and they seem to be getting their fill so I don't know. I haven't had this conversation with too many fans.

John - You've been working with Paul Brown again.

Norman - That's my man. Paul is the cat. (laughing) He's a good guy.

John - Are you ready for my favorite new question? I'm like a dog with a bone with this one. Knowing what you know now what would you tell the Norman Brown who recorded that first album?

Norman - I'd tell him relax man.

John - We're you that uptight?

Norman - I was so uptight. I just wanted to prove that I could write songs and I wanted to prove that I could play so sometimes I over played a little bit. It was my first record and there was a lot at stake so I was really nervous but other than that it was all a great experience.

John - Well, now you sound like a pretty laid back guy to me?

Norman - (laughing) Well, when I'm into working I get a little intense about things.

John - Have you and Dave Koz talked about you being on "Golden Slumbers 2?"

Norman - I don't know yet. We haven't talked about that. I'm doing the Christmas tour with Dave Koz this year.

John - Dave Koz to me is a guy you interview and just shoot the shit, no P.R. stuff just talk, hey kind of like this interview. (laughing)

Norman - (laughing) Yeah, well John, the feeling is mutual. Dave Koz is my buddy man, we did two summer tours together and I have a blast with Dave especially on stage. We share a lot of the same passion for performing and entertaining. Being on stage with him is a blast man. (laughing)

John - Now that Warner Brothers have cut back the Jazz so much is BWB going to continue? Is that second album going to happen?

Norman - Yes, BWB, Rick (Braun) , Kirk (Whalum) and I are in the process of getting our creative juices flowing again in the same direction. The politics is what's holding us up now. BWB is a Warner Brothers act but two of the three of the band are not with the label anymore and I can't record for another label with the two guys but once we figure all that out we'll have another album. We loved doing that album. They came to us and asked us to make that record and we went into the studio kind of blind and came out toured for two years and now we want to do it again.

John - You three go back a long way?

Norman - Oh yeah way back at least to the beginning of my career. I knew Kirk before my first record. Rick and I met on the circuit when we were doing shows together.

John - What brought you close to the Marvin Gaye song "What's going on?"

Norman - Man, I was so scared to do that song on record but I've been doing it in my live shows since I started recording, it's been my encore and it's perfect the audience stands up, sings a long with me and it's party time. (laughing) So I thought it was time for it to go on this record.

John - What was your favorite thing about Kansas City growing up?

Norman - (laughing) The barbeque probably. It was a cool place, it was a small town it wasn't that hectic and busy and with the snowy winters that we had there were not too many distractions for me I really got a chance to groove myself to getting here now. I think that had a lot to do with that. Charlie Parker came from there so there's a lot of inspiration there.

John - When you worked with Michael McDonald were both of you actually together in the studio. I know you toured together first?

Norman - Yeah, we did a tour together with Dave Koz and then I asked him to be on "Just Chillin." I picked a song that I thought was really written for him and so I sent it to him, he did the vocals and that was it.

John - That's why I asked it's done that way a lot these days.

Norman - (laughing) Yeah, it is quiet a world we live in.

John - The fans can also expect to see you on the Warren Hill cruise this year.

Norman - That's right, I'm doing the cruise this year.

John - Warren's a good guy, a good Canadian boy.

Norman - He's been asking me to do the cruise for a long time but cruises are not something I enjoy and at one time he was doing two weeks in a row and there was no way I could do that I would lose my mind.

John - The last time I talked to Carol Archer of R&R magazine she told me that she just loved you.

Norman - Well, I love her too. She has a deep passion for this music and she's doing the right thing. I just love her.

John - Let me hit you with a few quick ones. What's your biggest fear?

Norman - I guess not being liked by my public.

John - What's your worse habit?

Norman - I don't spend enough time enjoying myself. I work too much.

John - What's the most embarrassing thing that has ever happened to you as a musician?

Norman - I did a session one time when I was new to California and I got sidetracked and when it was time for me to perform my guitar was out of tune and I didn't hear it and I recorded the whole thing out of tune.

John - What was the highest point?

Norman - Winning the Grammy.

John - You're a good man Norman Brown. Thanks for talking to me.

Norman - Thank you so much John, thanks for all the love and I appreciate you and your work.

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