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Holly Cole has been one of the great Canadian Jazz interpreters since her debut in 1990. Her depth of understanding as a singer and her inquisitive personality have always given us reinvented and refreshing takes on classics from Gershwin, Rogers & Hammerstein, and Cole Porter among others. On June 10th Holly Cole will release her much anticipated Jazz reunion with long time collaborators Aaron Davis and David Piltch. 'Shade' is a concept summer album with a breezy feel and a positive warm weather attitude.

John Beaudin - Hi Holly. Welcome to Smooth Jazz Now.

Holly - Well, that's new for me. I never thought I'd be the kind of person to make a summer album. Typically a summer album is lighthearted and accompanies the visit to the beach. There are certainly songs on the album that are lighthearted and that represent that but I thought it would be interesting to do a summer album that represents different kinds of summer themes. In this country, summer is so important and summer is really rich with memories and so there are a lot of different associations with the season. Summer is like humid nights, hot steamy afternoons, downpours, there are so many different things that are related to the season so I thought it would be interesting to explore some of them.

John - Well, you've done another happy season with Christmas successfully so summer is a nice segue.

Holly - Yeah. Different people have done different aspects of summer but when you look for the true summer album you think of the Beach Boys and we did one of their songs on the record. (God Only Knows) Also, you think of beaches and we have songs on the album called 'Summer Afternoon,' Heatwave' and 'Cottage for Sale' so we have that and different kinds of interesting summer themes.

John - Let's talk about some of the songs. Let's start with that Beach Boys cover 'God only Knows.' It's a nice take!

Holly - Thank you. Interestingly that song is not about summer in any way but summer and the Beach Boys are synonymous for me. Anything the Beach Boys ever did remind me of summer. That song is so interesting to me and it can be interpreted in many different ways. When I first heard the song my interpretation was that is was a love song and the lyric says that it would be negative if I was without you. You can also interpret as God only knows without you I would be better off. (Laughing) When I think of Brian Wilson and his relationship with his father and his relationship with drugs, alcohol and other people in the band it could be about what he would be like without those relationships. I can't say for certain that my interpretation is about being better off or worse off about the person I am speaking to. I think it is important to entertain the other notion of maybe you'd be better off without the person.

John - Did you initially plan to stretch the end of the verse, the end of the line on 'God Only Knows?' You linger and stretch the words at the end of the sentence.

Holly - It was planned because of the tempo. The words are stretched because that is the tempo at which I wanted to do the song. When I love a lyric and I really enjoy elongating the words and often creating a subtext. I think it makes people hear them, you know? Often what happens especially with popular music the words just kind of fly by and it is a good thing because they are not very interesting anyway. (Laughing) So, you listen to the songs and you think that is a nice voice or an interesting production or good groove so you don't really listen to what the song is about. For me, writing songs is an art that involves music and also words that are equally important. If the words are important to me then I want you to hear them.

Holly - It's funny I knew it was going to be a trio album like before and I was excited about that so in the beginning that was the theme. I was picking songs with the intention of just playing with this band again. So, we got together and played the tunes and we realized part way through the process that a lot of these songs had summertime themes. That is how very organically the record came about and I called my manager immediately and asked him if we were releasing early summer. It turns out we were and we had a summer record on our hands and I thematically chose stuff after that.

John - Like you said before summer is positive but getting back together with Aaron (Davis), David (Piltch) and the rest of the guys was just icing.

Holly - Oh yeah, absolutely! I think this is the most upbeat record I have ever made even though I didn't grow up in that time period, Jazz is somewhat my roots and I haven't made a Jazz album in awhile. It is not a traditional Jazz record although I never really made truly traditional Jazz records anyways. It is just more of a Jazz instrumentation that's for sure.

John - I like the way you start with a cold vocal on 'Heatwave,' I found that very striking. I like the way that comes in and I like the way you produced it.

Holly - Thanks! I co-produced the Christmas record with Aaron Davis and I had no idea how difficult it would be to be the only producer on a record. With all the records I have done I have been involved in the creative side of producing. It is different chiming in when I feel like it then it is when you are responsible for everything. (Laughing) We do a lot of the production ourselves with arrangement ideas and we pick the songs and the grooves. This was like every decision was up to me including the fact that I had to sing on the whole record. It was a very big responsibility but I really loved it! I didn't know the undertaking it would be when I started and now I am happy that I did it because I learned a lot too.

John - I like the breezy feel of 'Heatwave' but I like 'Cottage for Sale' for the same reason, they both have great harmonizing vocals.

Holly - Oh, great! 'Cottage for Sale' was really fun to do. I think if you look up the word charming in the dictionary you would find that song 'Cottage for Sale.'

Holly - Absolutely! It is interesting that you should say that because we were having a lot of fun recording it. I have tried to capture the moment on this record of truly discovering a song and maybe that is why we sound like we are having fun. This album is full of these magic moments. Maybe if one was to end up with a fifth or sixth take you would have a cleaner, smoother, clinically perfect take but I really didn't want to go for that. I wanted to go for that feeling of discovery because that is the stuff that people react to.

John - Over producing songs is Steely Dan's job. ( Laughing)Yet they do it so well!

Holly - (Laughing) Steely Dan is my favorite band but you are right! (Laughing) It is a different kind of music and that music is about being clean and this music is about spontaneity. The types of musicians that I have are of a different ilk. Of course, Steely Dan uses some of the best musicians also. My band even though we have all worked in the studio a lot out personalities as well as being technically great musicians and I want their personalities on my record. So, with all of us the more you play stuff the more refined you make it and you can refine it to the point that it is robbed of its character. I want a character on the record because that is what I react to and I think that is what people react to.

John - I think Don Henley has said in the past that 'The Long Run' album was over produced and that they just thought too much in making that album.

Holly - Then it becomes so polished that it is robbed of its soul. The thing is you can't go backwards and that is the hard part. You can't get to that point and think lets back up to where we were two hours ago and that stuff is lost unless you capture it on tape when it is there because you can't return to it.

Holly - Yes, he is the drummer on the whole album and there is percussionist Davide Direnzoand plus theres also bongos on one track.

John - I like the way Mark comes in on drums and the piano also at the beginning of 'Too Darn Hot.' I appreciate Mark's playing a lot because I am a drummer and I know you are too. Mark is a great drummer because he makes complicated drum moves sound easy and I know that is very hard to do for most drummers. You also sing very low on that song.

Holly - Yeah, I am very low on that one. I sing the lowest note I have ever sung on that record actually. You are so right about the simplicity factor and making things sound easy. That in itself makes people feel comfortable if you are in a comfortable place with your instrument. So, that just simply comes out of you and there is no need to dress it up like crazy. I have always been a minimalist and I am a lover of simplicity. I think the impression gilding the lily comes to mind. I think if something is simple and beautiful it will stand on its own and the other things will be distractions.

John - On the song 'We Kiss in a Shadow' you sound very vulnerable almost like a little girl. There is certain tenderness in the way you sing that song.

Holly - I know what you mean. I find it to be a very vulnerable song because the text is so sad and it sounds as though the person who is singing it doesn't really have control with the whole situation. There are many things the song could be about, it could be about a love affair that she is having with someone else who is married. So, she is not in control of that situation. Another thing I have thought it could be about is about a hidden relationship between gay lovers where they have to hide it because it is not in maybe their society. There are a number of reasons why someone would be in love with someone else and not have it be public and the desire to have love celebrated and I think it is sad to have it in the shadow. The reason I think that you thought that I sounded like a little girl is that it feels like the person in the song is not necessarily young but certainly vulnerable.

Holly - I recorded a lot of them but I can not record the whole band in my studio at home because it is not a large

studio. It is a huge digital studio in terms of sound but not huge in terms of space. We recorded a lot of it in the big studio. The reason we didn't record all the vocal tracks at my home is that so many of the tunes is the first vocal that I do with the actual band. So, half the tunes on the record are original vocals on the very first take. It is always about the spur of the moment with the band and the discovery of the song. The communication in my band is very great and it is something I cherish.

John - Holly, I have to tell you a little story. Back in the days when I played New Age along with Smooth Jazz in the early 90's I use to have this extra slow, soft delivery on air. I have always been quite animated off air and you are very much like that too. Your professional side shows your softer side but as I am talking to you here I hear a woman who is very animated with excitement in her voice.

Holly - People have mentioned that to me before and I think a lot of artists use their art like a vessel for a different side of who they are. People have mentioned that I am very animated in person. I really think this is a big part of who I am but another big part of who I am is what you hear on my records. So, one finds different ways of communicating and I find that interesting about so many artists that I meet they seem in person to be quite different than they are in their music. They both are very valid and big parts of that person's life. Some people can interpret it as it not really being you and that is what I disagree with. Of course, some people are really fakers.

John - You've talked before about how it's very comforting for an audience when a musician does what he or she does well. I don't think I'm stretchin' too much to say you seem very comfortable with your job.

Holly - Sure, people feel at ease when they listen to your music and that makes them vulnerable in a good way because they're open so they are feeling different emotions. With music it could be anger, happiness, sorrow, joy or introspection, anyone of these will come out. I hope people may be comforted when they listen to my music so they would be open to these things because if they are on guard or confused I think they could be missing out. When you say that my music is comforting because you think I'm comfortable with myself as a musician, your right. It's what I'm trying to achieve you know. I guess because I'm successful with that than yes, I'm at ease. What I want to happen in my records and especially in my concerts since it's a more confrontational setting is for people to see me and for me to be at ease with that as well. If a song makes me feel vulnerable and the audience feels that or see's that in me maybe they'll feel the same way. I think at that point if the audience feels that then its not about me anymore. That's about what they're about and that can be a very scary situation but also exciting.

John - I am a firm believer that any joke can be funny if it is delivered right. I feel the same way about the lyric of a song. I know you are a big lyric person and you recorded Joni Mitchell's, "River" on your album "Dark Dear Heart." Now, there is a song with a great lyric and it is a hard song to pull off. That was a good cover.

Holly - Most of the time I do other peoples music. Doing a cover is one way of looking at it but I don't look at it that way. I think of cover songs as being quite related to the original songs and that can be great but I don't think that is what I do. Whether the person knows the original songs is not important. With jazz songs many people have heard the original or some version of it because some jazz songs are so old. With Joni Mitchell's, "River" for instance it is about something different for her than it is for me. You were moved by it again because it is the same song but it about something different when I did it.. It's really interesting to look at the whole concept of covers. It is only since the 60's that the singer/songwriter genre has become popular and those writers usually did the original version. A lot of the songs that I do are from way before I was born and some of the original versions are not even from the original writers. George Gershwin never thought he was going to make an album of his own music, he knew he wasn't going to be out there singing it. Those guys wrote for other people so none of the original versions are done by them. It was a different style of writing you wrote knowing other people would record it. In jazz if you're doing "Ain't Misbehavin" they don't call it a cover even though it is.

John - You also did a John Cody, Larry Klein song "Hold On" on the "Dark Dear Heart" album. You know John Cody is one of my favorite Canadian singers and unfortunately no one knows who he is. Since Larry Klein produced that album was John Cody hangin' out?

Holly - No, I don't know him. Yeah Larry Klein did a great job on that album.

Holly - I do to. Larry was all over that song. It's probably the only time where I have not picked a song for a record. It's really hard for me to pick songs since I'm so particular about them. That song I love and I was really happy with his writing. Larry is such a wonderful guy, a great producer and an amazing bass player. When we approached Larry to produce the album he didn't know that we were going to do "River" and at the time he was in the middle of his divorce with Joni Mitchell. That song is so plaintive and it's about escape and here he is producing me and I want to do his soon to be ex-wife's song. (Laughing) He was cool with it and she was cool with it.

Holly - (laughing) There's such a thing as a good divorce? Yeah, they did have one but they didn't have any kids.

John -Yeah, that makes it easier! Lets talk about your show as I would think a lot of people look at you as a live artist.

Holly - Yeah, that is true, a lot of people do and I love that. The reason I got into music is to perform. I love to sing live. When I signed my first record contract I thought to myself, "Great, I've just signed on and now I can do a lot of gigs." That is what signing a contract meant to me and making records was an afterthought. For a lot of artists I think it is the opposite. They would rather be making the album then go on tour. I make albums so I can go on tour. I love to make records don't get me wrong. It is a much newer challenge to make a record than to sing live. My relationship with the audience is so important to me like I mentioned earlier on how I want them to feel and understand is very important. For me, that is the most profound communication that I could ever experience.

Holly - Absolutely. It is here and then it's gone and then it is just a memory forever. It is either a strong memory or it isn't. There is a lot of humor in what I do and a lot of darkness and I believe those two things are connected strongly. There are a lot of highs and a lot of joys so I hope the audience feels an extreme amount of feelings.
I certainly feel comfortable on stage now. The first time I performed (laughing) I hid behind the piano player. It was embarrassing!

Holly - (laughing) Oh, yeah! I was seventeen and luckily the piano player was my brother.

Holly - Yeah, he did. My brother now writes music for theatre. He has a bunch of shows coming up real soon at the theatre center in Ottawa. He was originally a jazz piano player which strongly influences his music now.

John - It's interesting you mentioned a while ago the connection with humor and darkness or at least how they can touch each other. I remember having this long drawn out conversation once at a party about how people who like that combination tend to like very similar things. For instance, folks who like Seinfeld tend to like (David) Letterman over Jay Leno and they tend to like the Simpson's too.

Holly - Yeah or they like movies by the Coen brothers. I think all of us to a certain extent are into dark humor whether we want to admit it or not. It's like that odd feeling of being at a funeral and wanting to laugh but you're actually really sad you know it's not funny but it's a release.

John - Yeah it turns into an almost knee-jerk reaction. I have this saying that I use a lot and that's, "You act insane to stay sane."

Holly - Oh yeah that's good. We all have different ways of releasing emotions. Yeah, if something disturbs you that can seem funny to you and you can display the totally opposite feeling of what's expected of you. In my show now there's a lot of humor in it and there's a lot of dark explorations too and some of those things have a connection. There's also a lot of sexuality in the show and a lot of sensuality and that also can be connected to the darker side that we have. Also in the show is a lot of that sense of celebration. This is so much my dream right now and I'm playing with such great guys. People ask me all the time, "Do you feel like you're successful?" The answer is yes of course, it's nice to have an international record contract. If you would have asked me what the definition of success was when I was going to music school at 18 or 19 years old I would have told you the definition was playing with some of the best musicians in the world and that's what I'm doing now. I'm playing live, I'm making records I couldn't be happier about that. I'm very grateful.

John - I was talking with Gerry Beckley of America about a month ago and he said that one of the things he misses in record company's is great creative musicians that maybe didn't sell as much as the "A" list but certainly were as talented or more talented than the people at the top of the charts. I know you're a big Bonnie Raitt fan and you know her personally, she's a perfect example in the seventies she didn't sell that well but she was a valuable part of a rooster.

Holly - Well, Bonnie Raitt is one of the best artists in the world musically and in terms of integrity. She has more integrity than anyone I've ever met. She's so interesting and so funny, she's sexy and charming. She's a wonderful person and an outstanding musician. She is also the first woman to be in the Guitar Hall of Fame.

Holly - That's quite an honor for her because I'm sure she has to be twice as good to get half as much notoriety.

John - I saw her in concert in Vancouver with Bruce Hornsby opening up and in the middle of her set some yahoo in the audience yelled out, "Take it off Bonnie." She stops the show and starts giving this guy a lecture on his inappropriate behavior. It was great.

Holly - Yeah, Bonnie is very real. A long time ago I had a show here in Toronto at a little club and the place was really packed and I was wearing this dress which was the first dress I ever had made for myself. This woman I knew had made this dress and I was really excited about wearing it and I got up on stage and told the audience the same thing. So there was a guy in the audience who yelled, "Take it all off." The place just went silent. I was actually in the middle of a tune, so I looked at him and I said, "I have a joke to tell you." It was a small club so I knew the direction of where he was. I said, "What's the difference between a man and a pig?" He didn't say anything so I said, "A pig doesn't turn into a man after a few drinks." (laughing)

Holly - After that he got kicked out of the place and not by a bouncer but the audience kicked him out. The audience and I were best buddies for the rest of the night.

John - Going back to Bonnie Raitt, I read some place that when she first asked you to join her onstage you didn't think she was serious.

Holly - It's not that I didn't think she was serious it's just that I was so overwhelmed! She's one of my idols. We were playing at Lilith Fair and there were some girls on that tour that were like twenty, Sarah McLachlan is my age I think. Bonnie Raitt was definitely the veteran of this group and she stuck out in a way. I didn't want to bug her but I just one day came up to her and said, "Hi, I'm Holly Cole." and she says, "You're Holly Cole? I love your second record my favorite song on it is.." and I'm thinking oh my God. I couldn't believe it so she asked me to join her on her encore of John Prine's, 'Angel from Montgomery.' I didn't exactly say that I had to wash my hair. So she got Sarah to come up also and we did that every night as a trio.

Holly - Oh Yeah. Another thing she did was when she came to Toronto playing with Eric Clapton she called me to join her again on the song. It was such a huge thrill and an honor I can't say enough about her.

John - You know we play the hell out of your version of Sting's "Fragile" with Jesse Cook.

Holly - You know I'd met Jesse a long time ago. A long time before I even had a record contract actually, I met him through my brother. They played in a band together and I was living with my brother at the time. I think I was twenty and our careers just independently blossomed and for years I didn't see him. After I had a few albums out he just called my manager and asked for me to sing on his album. I hadn't really done that sort of guest vocalist thing on an instrumental album before that. When he mentioned 'Fragile' I just said, "Absolutely." I just love that song. I thought it would be interesting to do a different take on it, sort of a cooler take where it's a bit more detached when we're singing it. So we did it and it's sort of a low key version. We recorded 'Fragile' in the course of one afternoon because when I went in there the bed tracks were already done and it was great fun. Jesse has his own studio as well that's years before I had my own unit. He was actually one of the first people that I know to get a high level home studio going. Jesse lives coincidentally really close to me. We both live in little Italy in Toronto. He's really a lovely guy.

Holly - No, I don't sorry about that! Actually, I haven't seen him since we recorded that song.

Holly - I have two drum kits now. I have a whole kit of DW's, a Jazz kit in the basement with an eighteen inch base drum and two tom's plus I have another kit, it's not a rock kit but it has a twenty inch base drum and it's in my living room.

John - You know Holly you're not the usual girl singer. (laughing) How many gals have drum kits in their living rooms?

Holly - (laughing) Yeah, it's in my living room and I want to get a cocktail kit for my bedroom. I love the drums, I'm all over them. I play them all the time. It's a real beautiful outlet because it's so much different than singing. It employs different musical disciplines. Rhythm is involved in all music but it's the primary thing with drums but it's something I can do that's really fun and very personal. When you become a professional artist whether it be a singer or whatever it's inspected by people you know, your audience, your management and record companies and radio. With this it's just personal no one will care if I suck forever on drums but me you know. (Laughing)

Holly - Well, actually I'm pretty good at it (laughing) because it's a real personal love that I have.

John - I've been drumming for as long as I can remember and as I always say I'm officially the worse drummer in the universe.

John - But you know what I love about playing? It's that necessity to fine tune independence in order to get to the next level. It's sort of like a prerequisite you can't be a great drummer unless each limb can do its thing independently of the others.

Holly - You know playing the drums I've learned so many things just about my body for instance. It's very difficult to make your right side for instance totally independent for the left. It's such a learning experience and it's so difficult but it teaches you so much about the different aspect of your life but you have to play in order to get that.

John - Oh, I could talk about drumming all night! Anyway, thanks so much for taking the time to talk with us.

Holly - John, thank you so much. Thanks for making me "Artist of the Month" for June. All the best.